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So what do you think of the Noam party?
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 4:48 am
They seem very grassroots, so it's hard to gauge how much support they're garnering.

Do you think they will pass the threshold? Or pair up with another party? Have they even formally registered? Is this just a ploy to make Bayit Yehudi push back? Are they a single-issue party?
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jerusalem90




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 4:58 am
I'm against it! I can't believe that a little party would try to form now after last election where the right wing lost several voices due to the New Right and Zehut just getting slightly too few votes. The right needs to unite! Breaking off into little parties is the last thing that will help Am Israel if we don't want to see a Gantz/Lapid government 😱

I voted for Bennett last election, and won't make the same mistake this time. I'm either voting Otzma or even Likud.
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grace413




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 5:04 am
Never heard of them.

We don't need every Moshe, Leah and Yaakov to start a new party.

I'm a believer in big parties and I'm voting Likud.

And I'm sadly aware that we will most likely be deadlocked again.
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Alternative




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 5:16 am
Never heard of them till this post.
So I looked them up on ynet. Turns out they are more right wing and conservative than Habayit Hayehudi.

Some of them are behind the האומץ להיות נורמלי campaign, a campaign which makes me shudder with revulsion. What do they think they are doing????? Posting signs, אבא ואבא זה לא נורמלי??? There are thousands of kids in such families, how do they think this will make them feel??
Can't they promote the beauty of the traditional family without spitting in everyone else's face?

So no, I won't be voting for them.
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BadTichelDay




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 5:31 am
I also think the last thing the Right in Israel needs is more splintering into small parties.
If they don't unite, votes will be lost on those who don't pass the treshold.
If they do unite - then why split in the first place.
Doesn't make sense either way.

Another point about Noam: one of them, forgot who, was on the radio saying that they don't let women run on their party list and that women shouldn't be in politics at all. I disagree strongly and for me that's aleady a good reason not to vote for them.

I'll vote one of the other right wing parties, haven't decided which one yet. I've voted Otzmah and their forerunners in the past.
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grace413




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 5:37 am
BadTichelDay wrote:


Another point about Noam: one of them, forgot who, was on the radio saying that they don't let women run on their party list and that women shouldn't be in politics at all. I disagree strongly and for me that's aleady a good reason not to vote for them.

.


Crying Rolling Eyes What Puke Shame on you
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BadTichelDay




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 6:05 am
grace413 wrote:
Crying Rolling Eyes What Puke Shame on you


Uhmmm, hope you are being sarcastic.
If not -
I realize that in a halachic state women won't be in the government. I'd gladly leave it to the Sanhedrin or a king then. But in the meantime, with a misly Western style democracy and loads of secular left-wing women in politics I'm not willing to leave the field to them.
The people who don't want Ayelet Shaked, will end up with Tamar Zandberg and her ilk instead.
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 6:06 am
It's an outspring of Rav Tau's yeshiva, which broke off to the right Merkaz Harav many years ago.

The party was founded specifically as a reaction to LGBT campaigning, though I'm not sure why that's the issue they've chosen to focus on. Anyone?

What's interesting to me: Rafi Peretz is also a talmid of Rav Tau. Several weeks ago, Rav Tau insisted that Bayit Yehudi come out openly against anything LGBT, or he'll withdraw support, and form his own party if need be. For some reason, Rafi Peretz did not listen to his Rav, and the Noam party started putting out ads. They haven't officially announced a campaign, nor registered their party, nor do they have a list nor leader, which makes me wonder if this is a just an effort to pressure BY into being more openly right-wing, and they'll fold up their signs if it changes.

For myself: I support a halachic state, and I don't think BY nor Tekumah have the backbone to follow through and make it happen. I agree with Otzma's policies, generally, but only Itamar Ben Gvir has the political savvy to really get anything done; they make excellent social activists, but in politics, they're poison. I would like to see the national religious vote coalesce behind a strong and wise leader, but right now, no-one of that caliber is standing on the soapbox. I'll probably vote Otzma, but I'm curious to see if Noam will turn into anything but an arm-wrestle.
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etky




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 6:21 am
Rappel wrote:
It's an outspring of Rav Tau's yeshiva, which broke off to the right Merkaz Harav many years ago.

The party was founded specifically as a reaction to LGBT campaigning, though I'm not sure why that's the issue they've chosen to focus on. Anyone?

What's interesting to me: Rafi Peretz is also a talmid of Rav Tau. Several weeks ago, Rav Tau insisted that Bayit Yehudi come out openly against anything LGBT, or he'll withdraw support, and form his own party if need be. For some reason, Rafi Peretz did not listen to his Rav, and the Noam party started putting out ads. They haven't officially announced a campaign, nor registered their party, which makes me wonder if this is a just an effort to pressure BY into being more openly right-wing, and they'll fold up their signs if it changes.


How much more openly right-wing and anti-LGBT can the Bayit Yehudi be after this week's unfortunate pronouncement by Peretz - as education minister no less - that he supports conversion therapy for gay youths?
Honestly I am resigning myself and trying to get myself accustomed to the phrase: Prime Minister Benny Gantz.
The right is repeating its historic mistake of shooting itself in the foot by not uniting.
Unless there is one "big tent" party to the right of the Likud as a contra to Lieberman, there will not be a right wing government following the next elections and there is a very good chance that if a unity government is formed (inthe case of parity between the Likud and Kachol Lavan) it will not include the haredi or even the DL parties.
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 6:23 am
BadTichelDay wrote:
Uhmmm, hope you are being sarcastic.
If not -
I realize that in a halachic state women won't be in the government. I'd gladly leave it to the Sanhedrin or a king then. But in the meantime, with a misly Western style democracy and loads of secular left-wing women in politics I'm not willing to leave the field to them.
The people who don't want Ayelet Shaked, will end up with Tamar Zandberg and her ilk instead.


Well said!

I was joking around the other day that we need to open a training school for potential kings, kind of like Percy Jackson's hero training camp, and send them on moshiach missions. I was being facetious, but the fact that we don't have a unifying Sanhedrin, nor a halachic king, is hurting the Jewish people.

I truly believe that the leaders of the Israeli state are ephemeral puppets acting out the early acts of G-d's Master Plan, but I wonder if there's anything more we can do to speed us toward appropriate leadership. No one of true value is going to act out in the monkey sideshow that is modern democracy. Yet we need them to unite us under G-d.
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grace413




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 6:30 am
BadTichelDay wrote:
Uhmmm, hope you are being sarcastic.
If not -
I realize that in a halachic state women won't be in the government. I'd gladly leave it to the Sanhedrin or a king then. But in the meantime, with a misly Western style democracy and loads of secular left-wing women in politics I'm not willing to leave the field to them.
The people who don't want Ayelet Shaked, will end up with Tamar Zandberg and her ilk instead.


I was expressing my displeasure with Noam's idea that women should not be in politics.

As you said, we are not in a state run by halacha.
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 6:35 am
etky wrote:
How much more openly right-wing and anti-LGBT can the Bayit Yehudi be after this week's unfortunate pronouncement by Peretz - as education minister no less - that he supports conversion therapy for gay youths?
Honestly I am resigning myself and trying to get myself accustomed to the phrase: Prime Minister Benny Gantz.
The right is repeating its historic mistake of shooting itself in the foot by not uniting.
Unless there is one "big tent" party to the right of the Likud as a contra to Lieberman, there will not be a right wing government following the next elections and there is a very good chance that if a unity government is formed (inthe case of parity between the Likud and Kachol Lavan) it will not include the haredi or even the DL parties.


Funnily enough, it seems that that was all an error: he thought the interviewer was asking if he would send an LGBT student to therapy, and he answered accordingly. He later corrected and retracted his previous statement.

I do think we're falling apart, and it's because no one is addressing the elephant in the room: the national religious are not all motivated by the same values.
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etky




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 6:49 am
Rappel wrote:
Funnily enough, it seems that that was all an error: he thought the interviewer was asking if he would send an LGBT student to therapy, and he answered accordingly. He later corrected and retracted his previous statement.

I do think we're falling apart, and it's because no one is addressing the elephant in the room: the national religious are not all motivated by the same values.


Yes, but the damage was done- his retraction notwithstanding.
And judging by the wide-sweeping outrage that followed, I doubt that many believed the sincerity of his retraction and/or are not interested in the fine details of what he said or thought he said or not.
Either way, it was a huge electoral misstep that may actually help the Yemin Hahadash, if they ever get their act together.
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Alternative




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 7:05 am
Rappel, you say you support a halachic state.
What does that mean, on a practical level?

What would you do with all the secular people who drive on shabbat, live together before marriage, don't fast on yom Kippur? What would you do with gays? With Jews and Arabs intermarrying?

What would be different from the way it is now?
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jerusalem90




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 7:21 am
Alternative wrote:
Rappel, you say you support a halachic state.
What does that mean, on a practical level?

What would you do with all the secular people who drive on shabbat, live together before marriage, don't fast on yom Kippur? What would you do with gays? With Jews and Arabs intermarrying?

What would be different from the way it is now?


Jews and Muslims aren't allowed to marry, B"h, but n Israel. Occasionally but rarely it happens that a Jewish woman converts to Islam and marries a Muslim.

I don't know where I stand on the issue, but I have enough friends who are pro halachic state, and they would make it illegal to drive on Shabbat, but penalty would not be death, like a fine or very short jail time. My pro halachic state friends would say that no one would be investigating what you do privately as far as shabbat, s-xuality, etc. But publically desecrating Shabbat or bragging about homosexual relations would be punishable, but mamash not by death. There are probably some hardliners who would see Shabbat desecration punishable by death, but I don't know a single one.
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Alternative




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 7:28 am
jerusalem90 wrote:
Jews and Muslims aren't allowed to marry, B"h, but n Israel. Occasionally but rarely it happens that a Jewish woman converts to Islam and marries a Muslim.

I don't know where I stand on the issue, but I have enough friends who are pro halachic state, and they would make it illegal to drive on Shabbat, but penalty would not be death, like a fine or very short jail time. My pro halachic state friends would say that no one would be investigating what you do privately as far as shabbat, s-xuality, etc. But publically desecrating Shabbat or bragging about homosexual relations would be punishable, but mamash not by death. There are probably some hardliners who would see Shabbat desecration punishable by death, but I don't know a single one.


You are right, Jews and Arabs can't legally marry in Israel, but I think their marriages abroad are recognised, as are Jewish marriages to other nonJews.

In any case, they live as married couples. For example, the news reporter Lucy Aharish and her Jewish husband. Would that be illegal?

What about gay people living together? Would they need to tell everyone they are roommates?

Didn't realize there were people who actually think this is an option in our times.

I have a feeling when mashiach comes, it won't look anything like this vision.
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gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 7:33 am
I think this is gonna be another sit out election for me. Benny Gantz is fine but no way I'm voting for Lapid to be anywhere near power. I once voted gimmel but Litzman is now unacceptable for me. I wish there were some fresh faces with focus on social domestic issues, who weren't obsessed with policing other people's lives.
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Aylat




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 7:45 am
etky wrote:

Honestly I am resigning myself and trying to get myself accustomed to the phrase: Prime Minister Benny Gantz.


How do you feel about the phrase Prime Minister Yair Lapid? They come together.
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gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 7:52 am
Aylat wrote:
How do you feel about the phrase Prime Minister Yair Lapid? They come together.


I don't think Etky means to say that she's ok with that. Only that it is becoming more inevitable as every right wing party seems to think that the more obnoxious they are, and the more they splinter, the more votes they'll get. I'm sick of the lot of them.
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Aylat




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 7:58 am
Alternative wrote:
Rappel, you say you support a halachic state.
What does that mean, on a practical level?

What would you do with all the secular people who drive on shabbat, live together before marriage, don't fast on yom Kippur? What would you do with gays? With Jews and Arabs intermarrying?

What would be different from the way it is now?


This is a question that really interests me; I'm not a 100% sure where I stand, though I tend to believe that a halachic state is neither mandated nor desirable until Mashiach and the re-establishment of the Sanhedrin.

Maybe this should be a spin-off, I'm interested in hearing the different arguments for and against.
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