Law School | Imamother

amother

Oak

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 9:30 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Any ladies on here went to law school?
I’m looking to start my degree now and would like to hear and advice or guidance-which school you went to, how long it took, what your job now is, etc....

You can always work at a non-profit agency providing pro bono services to people with low income. You may not be making tons of money but it is a stable job where you help people who wouldnt otherwise be able to afford a lawyer. There are many options available such as housing, mental health, family, etc. And you can apply for loan forgiveness since you would be working at a non-profit. Join a union based non-profits and you get many benefits that you would otherwise not get. Good luck!

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 10:36 am

I graduated from a top law school, clerked for a federal appellate judge afterwards, spent 6 years in biglaw and then moved in-house to a large corporation. I'm very happy with my life currently, but there were some stressful times along the way.

I'll try to write a longer post later, as I don't have time right now. As a general piece of advice regarding advice, you should take with a very large grain of salt any input on this thread from people who are not practicing lawyers themselves, from people who graduated law school prior to approximately 2008 (unless they are frequently involved in the process of hiring new attorneys today), or from people who graduated directly into a job with a family member or family friend.

Regarding law school admissions, check out the forums on top-law-schools.com. There are some trolls, but overall a lot of high quality input. I recommend lurking and reading a lot before starting to post.

Do as well as you can on the LSAT. Invest the time if you need to. It is far and away the biggest factor in whether you will be admitted and whether you'll receive scholarship money and how much you'll receive. With a high LSAT and a low GPA (3.1), I was admitted to two top 10 law schools and received a merit scholarship of $15K/year at one. I also received merit scholarship offers at two additional top 14 law schools. The LSAT isn't an absolute guarantee but it weighs far more heavily than schools will admit.

SacN

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 2:18 pm

Quote:

I would only go at this point if I could get a full scholarship.

This. Or at least to make your law school expenses similar to a cheaper masters degree.

I'm not a lawyer (I work in tech using similar skills, making similar money, with better work/life balance, more perks, better culture. And my graduate degree cost a minute fraction of his), but my husband is. Graduated in 2012.

He overall likes the work itself but being client facing is hard and it's an old-fashioned industry. It's also a very expensive investment.

I won't say don't do it, but consider your return on investment carefully and make sure you don't invest more than you'll gain. Especially if you could gain in the same ways by spending less.

amother

Sapphire

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 3:08 pm

husband is a lawyer. I have to be honest I would not advise for a frum mother. my husband has a lot of student loans, and his salary is just enough to cover the IBR program and pay our bills (with me working too), it took him a long time to find his first job which was disheartening, and overall any well paying law jobs over 175k will work you to death. how can you possibly have morning sickness or pregnancy fatigue when you work 9am-10 pm plus some Sundays etc and a
full day Friday? you cant possibly be a normal mother! unless you have a job lined up say in your fathers firm etc I would never go into it as a woman or mom.

amother

Khaki

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 3:14 pm

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

what on earth is a normal mother?

When you are a lawyer - you have access to do all sorts of things professionally that other people just can't do. Like meaningful advocacy work.

Any woman who works, and gets morning sickness, has to work through it. Whats the difference for being a lawyer?

amother

Sapphire

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 3:20 pm

amother [ Khaki ] wrote:

a normal mother meaning a mother who can be a mother and is not by work and stressed out and sees her kids on shabbos?

the difference is the hours? most mothers of several children are not able to put in 60 hour work weeks and still be present emotionally or physically for their kids. most jobs that women choose have more of a work/life balance.

not sure what the attitude is for, its common sense. my husband only sees my kids on weekends. you dont think that would be detrimental to a child if that was his mother?

amother

Cobalt

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 3:21 pm

amother [ Khaki ] wrote:

my husband is a lawyer. Frequently works 18 hours a day. His job is high paying, but the women in the office leave after having babies. You simply cannot do the workload and mother your kids.

amother

Khaki

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 3:33 pm

amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:

my husband is a lawyer. Frequently works 18 hours a day. His job is high paying, but the women in the office leave after having babies. You simply cannot do the workload and mother your kids.

there are many ways to be a lawyer. Your husband's experience is not the only one.

The Lawyers in his office leave and either stop working all together - or find other lawyer jobs.

amother

Sapphire

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 3:44 pm

amother [ Khaki ] wrote:

there are many ways to be a lawyer. Your husband's experience is not the only one.

The Lawyers in his office leave and either stop working all together - or find other lawyer jobs.

ok but then the small firms or government jobs with 9-5 hours do not pay enough to justify the expensive schooling

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 3:48 pm

I was a mother and a biglaw associate for nearly 6 years. Other mothers do it for much longer and stick around to make partner. Those who leave for better work life balance are often only able to get their great new jobs because of the experience or connections that they obtained as an associate.

Deciding whether to enter biglaw is not the same as deciding to do it forever--the vast majority of associates, male and female, leave biglaw within 10 years or so. So even if you don't think you'd make the grueling climb to partner, it doesn't mean that you wouldn't enjoy or benefit from a few years working at a large firm.

If this is a path you're interested in and your LSAT score indicates that it's a possibility for you, then you shouldn't dismiss it out of hand. I recommend getting your advice from women with firsthand experience as biglaw associates or partners.

amother

Lime

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 4:29 pm

As I said before, I'm a practicing attorney. I'm also a frum woman, who is yeshivish enough to be somewhat ashamed of being on imamother. So I'm not going to go into many details.
You can be a frum woman attorney. You can even work in big law with a larger family. I know women who did. They all had plans to take care of their children. I can't say I know a ton of frum women, but it's definitely possible.
As I said before, I worked in big law and then went to a more family friendly job with flexible hours. All my legal jobs have been over 6 figures, allowing me to support my family, while being around to take care of them on their schedule. I may work more hours when everyone is asleep, but I get my job done.
There are definitely legal jobs, which pay well and are somewhat flexible. They may not pay the big law salary, but they are well paying.

I was lucky with my career bH. I practice in a niche area. Even though I graduated at one of the worst times, I was lucky to get a job without any connections. I was also lucky BH to have a scholarship enabling me to be debt free.
So, please let's not start the mommy wars. And now, I have to go back to taking care of my family.

amother

Sapphire

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 5:03 pm

amother [ Lime ] wrote:

the reality is that for a mother to make a "good salary" but not big law (think 85k-140k) she would have to work full time hours and pay for a ton of help/babysitting, takeout, student loans, not to mention full tuition for each kid, its just not worth the money to go to law
school. also factor in that a lot of the pay goes to retirement, medical insurance hsas etc and you are not walking out with that much take home.unless you are making 160k plus you will be working very hard and it just doesnt seem to make sense for a mother. I would not encourage a woman in the mainstream frum communities to go this route.

amother

Tan

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 5:21 pm

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

If you are working for yourself, and earning an annual salary of $150,000 per year, that's only 428 hours billed at $350 / hour, or slightly more than 8 hours per week. Now true, if you're running your own practice, you are definitely spending more hours than you're billing for, on things like, time spent growing the practice and administrative matters. Even if you spend twice as much time doing things that you can't bill for, as you spend on actual work, that still averages to only 24 hours per week.

You can't get to this point your first or second year out of law school, and you can't bill at $350 per hour your first year out of law school (although what do I know, maybe you can), but if you can hang in there for the first few years of learning how to practice law and building up your own practice, it's not a bad lifestyle.

You can also try to focus on a niche that's less likely to have annoying time-constrained related emergencies. I met an attorney with a solo practice who advises small business owners, and he said his clients are all easy going, and the work itself is pretty chill.

amother

Lime

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 5:31 pm

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

I've been practicing for awhile and I have a family. I'm pretty sure I know the reality. I have recommended law to mainstream by girls and I know mainstream by girls who become lawyers. Some are even supporting their husbands in kollel.
I've been working full time for many years. I have limited babysitting, no help, and honestly never get take out. I pay full tuition, which I don't think is a problem. I actually consider it a good thing not to be begging for discounts.
The one thing I will say is that you have to work hard. I don't have a lot of downtime, but that's life.

amother

Hotpink

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 5:35 pm

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

U are very unrealistic. Many frum women work in careers with long hrs and guess what? They work through morning sickness...through pregnancies etc..my relative does this, but gets a 3 month well paid maternity leave after giving birth. Also, I dont work in law but my job is very long hrs including fridays, erev yom tov...

Its possible and of course, op can decide to take a more family friendly"" law job like my friend who works 9 to 5.

With all due respect, u sound like frum women dont have professional careers and they "take off for 9 months wen pregnant. Its not easy working long hrs.. as a frum woman but its possible.

amother

Violet

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 5:43 pm

amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:

Really? And who's watching your kids? Who waits with them by the bus stop, who sees them when they come home, who does homework with them, who kisses their booboos?

You're making it sound as if childrearing can just be outsourced, and that is just not true.

And don't forget to budget for the expensive therapy for the kids who were raised without parents.