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I can't get to myself!!!
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 24 2019, 5:05 am
Every year kids get killed from dressers or bookshelves falling down on them. My sister's two boys were absolute monkeys, and she had all of her furniture bolted to the wall. Anything breakable went into storage until they were old enough to be trusted.

A simple "L" bracket drilled into the wall and the top of the piece of furniture can mean the difference between life and death. Even a two drawer dresser can be deadly.

Hashem should protect all of our children!

May the family of the little girl be comforted. Crying
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 24 2019, 5:15 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
Every year kids get killed from dressers or bookshelves falling down on them. My sister's two boys were absolute monkeys, and she had all of her furniture bolted to the wall. Anything breakable went into storage until they were old enough to be trusted.

A simple "L" bracket drilled into the wall and the top of the piece of furniture can mean the difference between life and death. Even a two drawer dresser can be deadly.

Hashem should protect all of our children!

May the family of the little girl be comforted. Crying


This. I thought it was obligatory in schools for tall furniture; if it isn't, it should be.

My son is that monkey, and we have everything drilled to the wall because of him.
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 24 2019, 6:13 am
There are too many tragedies that happen because we cut corners and don’t listen to the experts about safety issues. Closets and heavy furniture need to be bolted to the wall. I’ve heard experts say this for at least two decades. There is no excuse.

We should not be making ourselves feel better by saying that it was her time to go. We don’t know that that is the case. Even those who argue for absolute determinism admit that our actions can change a gezeirah, and perhaps the mitzvah of checking to make sure our children are in a safe environment could have averted this terrible gezeirah. We need to take more responsibility for our actions. There is no excuse for this tragedy.
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1ofbillions




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 24 2019, 8:13 am
clowny wrote:
Tzutzie, I too just finished a lengthy talk with my 8 year old who watched the scene. I followed Mrs. Mittleman from chai lifeline and I’m hoping she’ll fall asleep. She’s petrified. She came home all hysterical that there were 14 hatzolah cars, 1 ambulance and an helicopter.
Hashem please send moshiach.


That is absolutely heartbreaking!! Sending so many hugs your way.

Would you mind sharing what advice you got from Mrs. Mittleman? Please God this will be the last tragedy in Klal Yisraell and that knowledge won’t be useful anymore, but just in case, I’d like to know how to handle this sort of thing.
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Aetrsnrady




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 24 2019, 8:20 am
To the amothers that send to this camp,
When tragedies like this occur, Chai Lifeline generally also sends a representative to the school/camp to speak to the children. They may also have more specific conversations with the children who were in the actual bunk and close friends of the deceased, who are even more greatly affected. I strongly suggest that if the camp has not contacted you, that you contact the camp and ask if Chai Lifeline is coming for the children, and if not, strongly request that they do. May we know of no more tzaar.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 24 2019, 8:55 am
JoyInTheMorning wrote:
There are too many tragedies that happen because we cut corners and don’t listen to the experts about safety issues. Closets and heavy furniture need to be bolted to the wall. I’ve heard experts say this for at least two decades. There is no excuse.

We should not be making ourselves feel better by saying that it was her time to go. We don’t know that that is the case. Even those who argue for absolute determinism admit that our actions can change a gezeirah, and perhaps the mitzvah of checking to make sure our children are in a safe environment could have averted this terrible gezeirah. We need to take more responsibility for our actions. There is no excuse for this tragedy.


I agree and disagree.
We do have to make necessary safety precautions. Gezeiros can be changed.
But I believe that AFTER THE FACT the only comforting thing to say is that it had to happen. Now why it had to happen in a way that caused this much agmas nefesh is the question the family has to grapple with, privately, with the right people who can help them through this.
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zaq




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 24 2019, 9:21 am
thunderstorm wrote:
She’s in a state of shock.

Is this a literal translation from Yiddish? The “can’t get to myself” but, not the “state of shock”.
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Tzutzie




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 24 2019, 9:27 am
zaq wrote:
Is this a literal translation from Yiddish? The “can’t get to myself” but, not the “state of shock”.


It is Wink
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glamourmom




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 24 2019, 10:15 am
this is such an unbearably sad story. we send our kids to camp every day and it feel so innocent and mundane. Hashem should protect us all!!!

I have a book case in my house that came with a plastic thingamajig that you can bolt to the wall. anyone know what I mean? I told dh I don't think its safe enough but he says if it came from the company it must be tested and proven as safe. what are your thoughts?
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 24 2019, 10:42 am
Many years ago, when I was substituting in a preschool, some children were trying to get toys from a large, heavy shelving unit, when the whole thing started to come down on them but luckily I was close enough to catch it and after I reported the incident, the shelf was chained to the wall.
Here at my apartment, I used a stud finder and the type of chain lock used on doors to secure the bookcase.
My other furniture has a wide base, unlike those rickety Ikea dressers that have killed and injured numerous children.
Schools should waste no time securing furniture and at home everyone should call the handyman today. A local Monsey family who lost a child to falling furniture has an organization called Harper's Smile that helps prevent these deaths but apparently older people have also been crushed to death by unsteady furniture.
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spoiled




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 24 2019, 1:45 pm
zaq wrote:
Not to hijack, but what does “I can’t get to myself “ mean?

It's translated from a Yiddish saying: ich ken nisht tzi zich kimen. Meaning, I can't calm down.
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smile12345




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 24 2019, 2:32 pm
From the police statement:

A preliminary investigation revealed that Ruchy Friedrich, an 8 year old female was in a classroom with two of her teachers when she climbed on to a chair to retrieve an item from a large cabinet that was affixed to the rear wall. The cabinet fell off of the wall causing severe head trauma.

https://www.theyeshivaworld.co......html
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gamanit




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 24 2019, 2:34 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
Every year kids get killed from dressers or bookshelves falling down on them. My sister's two boys were absolute monkeys, and she had all of her furniture bolted to the wall. Anything breakable went into storage until they were old enough to be trusted.

A simple "L" bracket drilled into the wall and the top of the piece of furniture can mean the difference between life and death. Even a two drawer dresser can be deadly.

Hashem should protect all of our children!

May the family of the little girl be comforted. Crying


According to the statement made by NY State Police this cabinet was bolted to the wall but detached and fell. Not all tragedies can be avoided. It's possible that the faulty attachments could have been detected before but who knows. The school should perform an inspection on all the classrooms now though before anyone else gets hurt.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 24 2019, 3:12 pm
https://baltimorejewishlife.co.....21021
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 24 2019, 3:24 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
https://baltimorejewishlife.com/news/news-detail.php?SECTION_ID=1&ARTICLE_ID=121021


An excellent reminder. The human brain hates to think that it is helpless, so we default to "what should have been done."

There is a time and place for that thinking, and it's easy to get caught up in the emotions of the moment (and yes, I realize that I did that in this thread.)
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Marigold




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 24 2019, 3:43 pm
Rappel wrote:
This. I thought it was obligatory in schools for tall furniture; if it isn't, it should be.

My son is that monkey, and we have everything drilled to the wall because of him.


My kids can be one of those too. I’m a paranoid person in general and am super careful when it comes to stuff like this.

Years ago I had a 5 foot furniture piece from Ikea that came with drawers, and I had my husband bolt it to the wall with several of the silver L brackets. One fine, Shabbos morning I came into the room to find the dresser tilting at a precarious angle with the brackets hanging loosely. Apparently, out of sheer boredom, they decided to climb on top and take turns jumping off. They were young kids, Under 5 yrs of age. I shudder to think what could’ve happened and that was with me making sure it’s securely bolted. We both tested it before.

Ultimately, We always have to do our hishtadlus and continuously daven for siyata dishmaya. May hashem keep us all safe and may the family be comforted.
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flowerpower




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 24 2019, 5:24 pm
https://bit.ly/2YwjJxP


It says that it was affixed to the wall... so tragic!
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 24 2019, 7:25 pm
flowerpower wrote:
https://bit.ly/2YwjJxP
It says that it was affixed to the wall... so tragic!


Growing up in earthquake country (California), we always knew to get a contractor in who was licensed in building reinforcement. They know how to find the studs, and how long of a screw or lag bolt to put in.

Your bracket is only as strong as the wall behind it. If you're dealing with lathe and plaster, you might as well be anchoring it to tissue paper. Sheet rock is only marginally better, but still won't hold the weight of a child, combined with the weight of the furniture. If you hit the stud and sink the nails in deep enough, you're golden.

Another thing, is that Ikea furniture is not the strongest in the world. At the attachment points, you might want to add a strip of wood to reinforce the place where you screw in the brackets on the furniture side. A perfectly attached wall bracket will not help you with a wobbly, flimsy book shelf. In this case, the bracket will still be right where you left it on the wall, while there will be a tumble of compressed plywood chips on the floor.

Your rules of reinforcement is,1. thickest point to thickest point. 2. there is no such thing as screws that are too long 3. there is no such thing as too many brackets. 4. know when your handyman can't do the job properly, and pay a contractor. It's some of the best money you can spend.
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jul 29 2019, 10:39 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
I agree and disagree.
We do have to make necessary safety precautions. Gezeiros can be changed.
But I believe that AFTER THE FACT the only comforting thing to say is that it had to happen. Now why it had to happen in a way that caused this much agmas nefesh is the question the family has to grapple with, privately, with the right people who can help them through this.


I am not sure that saying that it had to happen is a comfort to everyone who is mourning. But I think that more important than comforting someone is trying to avoid a similar tragedy from happening again. This is the reason that some of us are talking about things that could have been done. Not because we want to feel control. Not because we want to point fingers. Of course not. The reason is that talking about probable causes at the time of a tragedy can help us look at the precautions that we didn't take at the time and that we should have. Heavy furniture has to be bolted securely to the wall -- not to the drywall, but to the studs. Doing anything else is risking children's lives. We need to be clear about this. In the same way that for decades many agitated for seatbelt and car seat use, we need to agitate for proper securing of heavy furniture to walls. Our children's lives are precious.
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jul 29 2019, 10:53 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
https://baltimorejewishlife.com/news/news-detail.php?SECTION_ID=1&ARTICLE_ID=121021


Although the article makes some good points, overall I don't find it to be well argued or written. Yes, of course it is horrible to go over to mourners at a funeral or shiva and point out what could have been done. Of course. But that's entirely different than discussing on social media what could have been done. There is toeles to discussing what could have been done, how the tragedy might have been avoided. The purpose is to try to put into place policies that could have avoided tragedy.

As I said in my previous post, part of what caused the consensus for seat belts were all those who died without seat belts. I remember that I was thirteen when a friend's mother died after her car was struck by a driver who ran a red light. She was not wearing a seat belt. We went to the shiva. Of course at the shiva no one asked whether she had been wearing a seat belt. But after, people talked about it. Because that is necessary. It is important to figure out what went wrong, how tragedy might have been averted. Is social media -- which the author of the Baltimore Jewish Times op-ed castigates in particular -- any different? Yes, because the mourners are somewhat more likely to read it than to hear friends' gossip. But it's also easier to avoid, if one wants to.

I can guarantee you that the parents of this little girl are going to be visited by lawyers who will not tell them that their daughter had to die, but who will on the contrary tell them to sue the camp or school for the death that could have been avoided with proper precautions. They're going to hear a lot more from these lawyers than they will from anybody on social media. I'm not at all arguing for suing. I'm arguing for people understanding that it's important to properly secure heavy furniture to walls, and to make camps and schools safe in other ways.
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