Why aren't schools any cheaper OOT?

amother

Teal

Thu, Sep 19 2019, 9:04 pm

amother [ Puce ] wrote:

My parents live in lkwd and pay about 5-7k per elementary school child. Everyone in the school pays by hook or by crook. My aunt in Chicago pays double that. She says there are a lot of people who pay zero tuition and everyone elses cost are driven up because of that...

School tuition in Lakewood is going up. A few schools are close to 9. High schools and boys mesivta also high.
The low tuitions are not staying sustainable.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Sep 19 2019, 9:18 pm

NY and NJ have a lot of government funding for special education and transportation that most communities out of town in different states don't have, but there are many states where some OOT communities are that have plenty of government funding for other things. It's special ed for the most part that OOT communities are missing.

Many states have government funding available for textbooks, technology, and other things mentioned. E-Rate is a federal program that helps schools as well with technology/phone costs.

That is not the diffrentiating factor in tuition costs.

amother

Saddlebrown

Thu, Sep 19 2019, 9:40 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

first off, you're slightly twisting my post around. what I said is that a lot of BTs think it's a chillul hashem to say that kosher restaurants have atrocious service. my words say nothing about the truth of the statement.

we're getting way off topic, but yeah I do find that the service is usually awful at kosher restaurants. (been to maybe 40-50, ranging from casual pizza/sandwich places to fancy ones). and all the FFBs in our community talk about the service being atrocious at most kosher restaurants wherever they go -- in our community and in other cities. we don't go out much; I like to cook.

Your words said that you clearly believed that statement to be true. Now you are confirming it.

I don't know why all of you think that service is so terrible at kosher restaurants. That has not been my experience, nor the experience of the people I know. I think it's far more likely that you are looking for the problems, especially given the tenor of may of your posts on the thread.

amother

Thu, Sep 19 2019, 9:54 pm

amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote:

wait so everyone on here, not just me, who thinks that kosher restaurants have generally terrible service is looking for problems? c'mon.

as a BT, I perhaps have a different perspective on kosher restaurants than some of you. (though, as I said, lots of FFBs in our circles regularly make comments about kosher restaurants having awful service, as if it's a well know thing.) I've experienced a stark difference in the typical service level at kosher restaurants versus the that of treyf restaurants. at least part of it is that the treyf restaurants face real marketplace competition, whereas the kosher restaurants often benefit from "captive audiences."

amother

Saddlebrown

Thu, Sep 19 2019, 9:57 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Confirmation bias on your part, IMO. Not sure about everyone else, but I've never heard it before. I live in-town, though.

Could it be that in-town there is actually more market competition, if still a lot less than in non-kosher restaurants?

sarahmalka

Thu, Sep 19 2019, 11:09 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

as a BT, I perhaps have a different perspective on kosher restaurants than some of you. (though, as I said, lots of FFBs in our circles regularly make comments about kosher restaurants having awful service, as if it's a well know thing.) I've experienced a stark difference in the typical service level at kosher restaurants versus the that of treyf restaurants. at least part of it is that the treyf restaurants face real marketplace competition, whereas the kosher restaurants often benefit from "captive audiences."

Agreed.

Also, I guess I don't understand what OOT means bc from where I live, Monsey and Lakewood are IN town! That many Yidden? That many Jewish schools and kosher restaurants and shops? That close to NYC and the boroughs? Definitely in town to me.
But that's a different thread.

amother

Magenta

Thu, Sep 19 2019, 11:25 pm

As some one with insider knowledge in both our day school and coincidentally the kosher meat industry maybe I can give you some useful information.

We are OOT and have ZERO government funding. No busing, books, technology etc. there is a tiny bit of title money but many of our students live in neighborhoods that can’t use it. We don’t turn away any child that needs a school however we do have a minimum tuition rate that actually come out to less than 50% of the cost per child to run the school. Our operating budget, which is stretched soooooo thin and is continuously vetted for areas to reduce or cut, when divided by the number of students comes out to a cost of $12,000 per child. We pay our teachers average salaries to compete with the local school districts and to attract kodesh teachers from out of town. Over 3/4 of our students receive reduced tuition (tuition is 12-16k for k-8, preschool is less) so we have to fundraise A LOT. Like others said, do not underestimate the difference that even some government funding can do. As a community school we can’t turn away a student just because the family can’t pay full tuition.

As for the meat industry, also like a PP said, the kosher rate is sooooo low. You have to pay for supervision from so many different agencies in order to even have clients who want to buy your meat, you have to pay travel expenses plus salaries to the shochtim to come to the plant because it’s always far from any Jewish community. Salt costs, separate kosher machinery needed, freight costs to get the meat to the distributors is astronomical. Meat is a commodity so the price is determined by the current trading price and it fluctuates based on the time of the year, weather, livestock illnesses, droughts, corn prices (affect feed price etc). Literally the profit margin is paper thin, pennies on the pound. The only way to turn a significant profit is to sell a ton of weight. It’s a nerve wracking industry.

As a BT I can understand the cynicism but please, maybe get involved and the more you learn you’ll realize the schools aren’t trying to drain you of money “because they can” and neither is the kosher meat industry. BH we have these organization to provide us with a venue to properly educate our children and feed our family kosher food.

amother

Chocolate

Thu, Sep 19 2019, 11:46 pm

The entire premise of this post has me confused.
I live oot and as compared to non Jewish private schools, our tuitions are low. The non Jewish private school my relative in my oot community attends, charges over 40,000$ a year tuition.
I’m not sure what world your coming from, but amongst my non religious and non Jewish relatives, it’s considered prestigious to send your child to private school. The costs are upwards of 20,000$ per child.
Why should our yeshivas be different?

amother

Saddlebrown

Fri, Sep 20 2019, 8:54 am

amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:

Because we are not getting near the same standard of education in our schools. Also, many of our schools do not require degrees or certification at all, and those that do, mostly require lower levels of schooling and certification than the non-Jewish private schools do.