S/O Nashim b'mai zachyan

simba

Sun, Sep 22 2019, 2:36 pm

How fascinating is it that I feel completely superior and lauded by Judaism?

My candle lighting makes it shabbos in this house.
I am totally relied upon by my dh to ensure that TH is kept. I can lie about a bedika being clean or not really seeinf a stain etc.. This is the neshamos of our Children and their purity.
This is huge for me.

My kosher kitchen is only between me and God. And I’m fully trusted there.

I am the mother of Hashem’s children. He gave me them and knows that I’ll do my best.

My responsibilities are so vital that I’m even exempt from many mitzvos because of them.

No apologetics. I truly feel blessed and superior (sorry dh!). Maybe I’m innocent and naive but please leave me here. I’m happy.

amother

Tan

Sun, Sep 22 2019, 2:38 pm

amother [ Orchid ] wrote:

I don't think Chava needed a curse to be second class in society. she was already just that by the mere fact of being created after Adam and from his rib.

Adam was told by hashem not to eat from the tree of knowledge. Chava heard it from Adam. She did not hear it from hashem.

Therefore we see the entire man/woman dynamics in our world is simply hashems design.

This harping on Chava's curse is a bit simplistic and often childish.

Bringing a child down into this world requires contractions just like the neshama on the deathbed struggles to go from one layer of this world to the next, to the next, to the next till it reaches its final resting place.
It is a concept in kabalah that there are layers of worlds from our earthly world till the highest world. going from one to the next is called tzimtzum= contraction.

I'm sorry but being created second and from a rib does not make someone inherently second class - on the contrary I have learned that being created from the rib is a higher level then being created from the ground. Second can also be better like 2.0 vs 1.0 - so yes, you are choosing to see it the way you do. Why Hashem told Adam and not chava I don't know but I don't see that as a proof that she was inferior from the beginning - I see it more as a question to Hashem as to why He did it that way (which made her more vulnerable). And the snake choosing chava over Adam does not mean that she was inferior - just different nature wise (not a bad thing in my book) and more vulnerable because she did not hear it from Hashem first hand. Painful contractions - all of pregnancy and labor pains are a clear curse to chava after the sin and yes she had kayin and hevel while on gan Eden as full adults with no extended pregnancy or any pain. Sheis was the first baby.
Either way, though, obviously there was a difference between Adam and chava from the beginning but different isn't bad. And you only hear of both Adam and chava being demoted after the Chet.
Women being lumped together with blind mute etc is purely from halachic standpoint when it comes to mitzvos as far as I understand. And there are many things in the Torah and chazal that can be taken offensively for many different groups and types of people - you have to learn the context, the commentaries, etc before you get a better picture.

amother

Tan

Sun, Sep 22 2019, 2:41 pm

simba wrote:

Truly beautiful Simba! I'm with you on this

amother

Orchid

Sun, Sep 22 2019, 3:15 pm

amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:

Just wondering- How are you all OK with being inferior, subservient and/or second class?

Life is too short and too full of good stuff and I feel lucky to be observing Torah and mitzvos

that frankly I do not care. At the same time I do not put my head in the sand saying things

are fair, equal or always respectful towards women.

I also know that unless a her husband is disturbed, or deranged, women have a hidden

power whose magnitude is enormous. If men would know this, I believe they would be

frightened to be married.

(comments are welcome)

amother

Seagreen

Sun, Sep 22 2019, 3:20 pm

amother [ Orchid ] wrote:

amother

Cerise

Sun, Sep 22 2019, 3:34 pm

simba wrote:

So what you're doing is classic cherry picking. You are mentioning some beautiful components of being a woman, while leaving out and ignoring some of the things the Torah and gemara say about us. Are you bothered that the torah says that the deaf, mentally disabled, minors, and women can't be valid witnesses?

simba

Sun, Sep 22 2019, 3:42 pm

amother [ Cerise ] wrote:

Did you study this? Don’t be simple minded, just because they have one thing in common ( not being able to be witnesses) doesn’t equate them across the board.

Do you know why a women cannot be a witness? Can you appreciate that reasoning for what it is, even if it doesn’t feel good to you? Would you just like to have your own sentence dedicated to a women not being able to be a witness?

amother

Cerise

Sun, Sep 22 2019, 3:59 pm

simba wrote:

There are apologist answers that frankly are pretty weak. I think it's something along the lines woman are so smart and have such concrete opinions that she will not be able to listen to a dissenting opinion.
I'd rather not post the glory details but the gemara has very specific words to describe a womens intellectual capacity, and promiscuity.
There's a spin answer for everything of course.

amother

Cobalt

Sun, Sep 22 2019, 4:11 pm

simba wrote:

Simba- seriously? The fact that you are not assumed to be a liar makes you feel superior?
Do you distrust your dh’s word about any of his mitzvos?
(Also- btw, lighting candles is a beautiful mitzvah, but it does not make it shabbos in your house. You maybe are mekabel shabbos then, but you don’t have to be, not do any of the members of your house. In fact, most men I know are not mekabel shabbos with their dw/dm, but in shul)

amother

Cobalt

Sun, Sep 22 2019, 4:19 pm

Op- about your original question- I have heard a pshat you may appreciate. (I don’t remember who it’s from, but I can find out)
Since obviously women have many mitzvos that can be mezakeh them, the question bmai zachyan is actually asking- with what will they be able to overcome their yetzer hara and do mitzvos, since it says “barsi yetzer hara, barasi Torah tavlin” if a person is not learning Torah how will they overcome? And the answer is by supporting your husbands, sons’ Torah (Ie- being involved with Torah, having a Torah home)

amother

Burgundy

Sun, Sep 22 2019, 4:28 pm

amother [ Orchid ] wrote:

You know I've heard this before, and it sounds lovely, but I haven't personally been blessed with this power-am I doing something wrong? What is my hidden power and how do I access it?

amother

Sun, Sep 22 2019, 4:44 pm

amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:

I learned that one, too. אם פוגע בך מנוול זה, משכהו לבית המדרש...

It doesn't make me feel any better. Why do I need to "enable" someone else in order to combat my yetzer hara? How does that even make sense?!

ETA: the Vilna Gaon says that תבלין של הנקבות - צניעות ומידות טובות ומוסר.