Rebbi did not wash his hands

DrMom

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 6:32 am

nchr wrote:

Very many people do not wash their hands with soap and water. It is possible he just used a hand washing cup at an outside sink. I personally use soap, but I know very many people who do not, including one doctor (MD)

Yuck.

The WHO estimates that millions of children in Third World Countries could be saved if the had regular access to soap, and this doctor (presumably) living in a developed country refuses to use this easily-available, cheap way of reducing the spread of ilness?

Why would a physician deliberately eschew using soap after he uses the bathroom?

I pity his patients.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 6:48 am

I always use soap. Liquid soap is fast and easy, you don't even have to think about it.

I also think it's weird that the school does not have a separate bathroom for teachers. Even in public schools, teachers are not allowed in the student bathrooms unless they suspect there is shenanigans going on.

WhatFor

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 6:53 am

I don't know why some people have been jumping on OP for this.

OP, I think your concerns are valid. I think the rebbe is supposed to be a role model and walking or if a bathroom without washing your hands is bad chinuch in addition to unhygienic. Also it does sound weird for the teacher to be using the bathroom next to the young students.

I don't think you should give your son long-winded excuses, which he's not going to buy anyway. He knows what he saw and minimizing it or trying to get him to buy into some unlikely scenario (walked across the whole school to go into the kitchen and wash there?) is just going to teach him not to confide in you. And yes, it's unhygienic to wash in a sink used for cleaning before food just after you've used the bathroom.

If you want to be really diplomatic about it, you can email the principal that your son noticed someone leaving without washing their hands, and it may be good to remind everyone about hygiene and that you need to wash in order to say Asher yatzar. Although if you're raising the whole teacher using the kid's bathroom issue, may as well say it all at once.

zaq

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 6:54 am

Am I the only person on the planet who learned that ritual “washing” aka netilat yadayim is to be done only after completing sanitary washing aka soap and water? exactly the way one bathes and showers before dunking in a mikvah or cleans a body of any filth before doing the ritual tahara? Tell me I didn’t completely misconstrue what the teachers told us,

FranticFrummie

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 6:59 am

zaq wrote:

You are absolutely correct!

amother

Bronze

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 7:03 am

Maybe he has how own stash of hand sanitizer??
Isn’t that just as good as washing hands after bathroom use?

That’s what I would have said to my ds if he mentioned it to me.
This is WAY TOO BIG OF A DEAL being made.

mommy3b2c

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 7:09 am

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

Another of these circular threads that go nowhere...op nobody was attacking you and I don't need to be thanked. Talk about flashbacks to some memorable threads....

Yup. It’s the same poster every time. And I’m pretty sure I know which one. And in general I’m NOT very good at figuring these things out.

amother

Rose

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 7:16 am

OP, does your ds share so little with you that when he does tell you something you must jump on it to show him you were listening? In which case you have bigger problems than this.

thunderstorm

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 7:31 am

I know this may sound gross to many, but I was taught as a kid that you wash your hands after the bathroom because your hands are tameih. I believe many people follow this. Where they don’t necessarily practice hygiene properly (handwashing with soap etc) . But you need to wash your hands and then say Asher Yatzar. Many people hold not to wash their hands in the bathroom because the room itself is tameih. They also can’t make a bracha in the bathroom. That’s why they wash in a sink outside the bathroom , such as the lunchroom or kitchen etc.
When I was young I thought non Jewish people didn’t wash their hands at all after the bathroom because I understood it was an issue with hands being tameih and it didn’t apply to them.
The using soap after the bathroom is a whole other argument.

thunderstorm

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 7:32 am

amother [ Rose ] wrote:

OP, does your ds share so little with you that when he does tell you something you must jump on it to show him you were listening? In which case you have bigger problems than this.

Why is the OP being attacked. I find this post offensive .

egam

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 7:58 am

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

Another of these circular threads that go nowhere...op nobody was attacking you and I don't need to be thanked. Talk about flashbacks to some memorable threads....

So you call wine amother post blaming OP for her son OCD not attacking? I guess your definition of the word differ from mine.

amother

Wine

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 8:13 am

The kid should have been told that of course the Rebbi washed but he is careful to use a washing cup and washed out of the bathroom for that. Simple. He probably didn’t use soap but he did wash and it’s really no one’s business. And by the way op, it’s very different for men when they urinate. A frum man is usually not touching anything.., just saying. Don’t start with what he might have touched and all that.. he was clean and used water. Chill. Move on. You want to raise happy, respectful children here.

watergirl

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 8:23 am

zaq wrote:

This. You do not wash netilat yadayim over soiled hands. I guess that's where the disagreement comes in - are hands considered to be soiled after merely urinating? I think so, but obviously not everyone agrees. Look in the back of the YK machzor (Artscroll), it says on YK, you do not wash if you only urinate unless you are greatly distressed by not washing, in which case you must touch a covered part of the body which would require netilat yadayim, and then to still wash only to the knuckles. No mention of soap. So maybe this is where the confusion comes?

And to the amother who says she is very clean but does not wash with soap after using the bathroom - please research why we use soap and reconsider.

amother

Ginger

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 8:29 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

This is not the first I have heard about rabbeim not washing there hands with soap, just going out to wash netilat yadayim at the water fountain. Its been told to me by my older kids, but this son gets the creeps from it and the other sons could handle it.

Like others wrote, I would also assume the rabbi washed, probably without soap, at another sink since some are makpid not to wash netilas yedayim in a bathroom.
I would explain this to ds calmly instead of sharing in and intensifying his horror. As someone with ocd, he is probably very particular abt things and may be set in his ways. Gently teaching him to be more tolerant of others and accepting of the different standards of different ppl will accomplish more for your long-term parenting than trying to educate this rebbe abt using soap.

Mommyg8

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 8:31 am

I didn't read through the whole thread but I understand that mens anatomy is different than women's, and it seems possible to me that a man may not need to wash with soap. But it could be I'm wrong as I never followed any man into the bathroom....

amother

Bisque

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 8:32 am

Complete side point here, but I am completely troubled how so many people feel that OPs son must be imagining it, is unaware, should be DLZ..... and the Rebbe, who is a frum, grown man, a Rabbi no less, is of course not doing anything wrong.
This is how we have child predators who continue to abuse children for decades. We are discouraging OPs son from speaking up and believing what he saw. I know washing your hands and harming a child are different, but the point I'm making is that we of course can't believe a child, and Rebbe would never do something wrong.
Just some food for thought.

amother

Ginger

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 8:40 am

amother [ Bisque ] wrote:

I think posters DO believe the sons report. I think only one doubted him. They r just suggesting that he be dlz the rabbi that he washed elsewhere bc he doesn't wash in a bathroom, not that his report isn't true.

amother

Aqua

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 8:55 am

Didn't read other responses, don't know if this has been said yet, but...

OP, Regardless of the fact that in this case your son probably happens to be right about being grossed out, being that you mentioned that he has ocd about these things, I hope it's ok to say that making a big to-do about it will just feed his ocd. And that will work against you, because with ocd, there's always gonna be another thing that's gonna trigger it. So instead of focusing your efforts on health and hygiene awareness in schools you may want to use your energy and resources to help your son gain tools to manage his anxiety so that these things don't bother him as much. If your son is already in therapy, kol hakavod, maybe use this as an opportunity to practice skills learned, or even just point out that this is his ocd talking, and he should not pay it any more attention.

TLDR, treat his ocd, don't feed it

amother

Ruby

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 8:57 am

OP, it is your job as a mother to teach your son that he cannot control other people's actions, only his own- and his own reactions. That he needs to develop tolerance for people doing things differently or in a way that makes him uncomfortable. That him paying attention and obsessing over something like this is part of his OCD- and that neither he or his mom should be giving this any more discussion or fuel. That he needs to develop a tolerance for situations that are out of his control and that may cause him distress- but that is the OCD talking and taking over. That it is impolite to pay attention to and notice other people's bathroom habits. That he needs to be Dan lekaf zchus in this situation- as in all situations in life.

Gently, with empathy, but all of this is really important for him if he is to grow into a stable, healthy adult