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Is it worth voting for someone "unprofessional" (again)
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itsmeima




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 11:44 am
Would you vote for someone without political experience (again)?

(I personally think the who Ukraine thing kind of "just happened" I don't it was something Trump quite planned, and it would be kind of sad if that's the thing that ends is presidency.)
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roses




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:18 pm
I think the person's personal qualities are most important- intelligence, judgement, reasoning, problem solving abilities, integrity, character. The person's past history in whatever industry they are coming from is also extremely important. Did they conduct themselves with integrity and respect for the law? The person also needs to be educated and demonstrate a working knowledge and expertise in world affairs, domestic affairs and the law. The person also needs to be someone who values other people's expertise and consults with others when his information may be lacking. And respect and consider the views of others who may have different views than him.

That being said, I don't think the Ukraine scandal was accidental. Trump has a long history of just not caring about the law at all. He has always had lawyers to mop up his legal messes, and he's gotten away with so much, that he truly thinks he is above the law. I think he very much knew that what he was doing was wrong- but he relied on the people around him to maintain the code of silence. And to mop up his messes. It is clear that he really doesn't care about US national security interests, and that he is treating the presidency as one big smorgasbord of abuse of power- wherever he could grab it in the world. That has been his strategy his whole life on a smaller scale, and now as president, he has taken it to a much larger, dangerous and damaging scale. He has never demonstrated an iota of care for anyone except himself and Ivanka (creepy relationship) so we have no reason to expect him to behave differently as president. What he did in Ukraine is straight out of his usual playbook.
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banana123




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 1:32 pm
I think the bigger question is, why are the "professionals" all so horrible that we've had enough of them and are searching for something else?
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itsmeima




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 2:00 pm
roses wrote:
I think the person's personal qualities are most important- intelligence, judgement, reasoning, problem solving abilities, integrity, character. The person's past history in whatever industry they are coming from is also extremely important. Did they conduct themselves with integrity and respect for the law? The person also needs to be educated and demonstrate a working knowledge and expertise in world affairs, domestic affairs and the law. The person also needs to be someone who values other people's expertise and consults with others when his information may be lacking. And respect and consider the views of others who may have different views than him.

That being said, I don't think the Ukraine scandal was accidental. Trump has a long history of just not caring about the law at all. He has always had lawyers to mop up his legal messes, and he's gotten away with so much, that he truly thinks he is above the law. I think he very much knew that what he was doing was wrong- but he relied on the people around him to maintain the code of silence. And to mop up his messes. It is clear that he really doesn't care about US national security interests, and that he is treating the presidency as one big smorgasbord of abuse of power- wherever he could grab it in the world. That has been his strategy his whole life on a smaller scale, and now as president, he has taken it to a much larger, dangerous and damaging scale. He has never demonstrated an iota of care for anyone except himself and Ivanka (creepy relationship) so we have no reason to expect him to behave differently as president. What he did in Ukraine is straight out of his usual playbook.


I'm with you, but is that enough?

To me, someone like Mayer Pete qualifies, however, Washington would be new to him, and he may mess up unintentionally...
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roses




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 2:09 pm
itsmeima wrote:
I'm with you, but is that enough?

To me, someone like Mayer Pete qualifies, however, Washington would be new to him, and he may mess up unintentionally...


Mayor Pete does not possess Trump's arrogance in thinking he knows everything and is smarter than everyone else in the world. While I do think he is brilliant, I would imagine that he would surround himself with quality advisors and cabinet members, and take counsel of them as needed. A President isn't meant to govern in isolation. Teamwork is extremely important to lead the country effectively & within the bounds of the law and with respect for the powers of the presidency.

Trump has had a revolving cast of characters in his cabinet, and he is now scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of competence, knowledge and skill. And it is his fault, because he fired anyone who tells him something that bruises his extremely fragile ego or doesn't treat him like the king he wants to be. He wanted to be untethered, and that is exactly what he got. To the great shame and detriment of our country.
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Jeanette




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 2:24 pm
roses wrote:
Mayor Pete does not possess Trump's arrogance in thinking he knows everything and is smarter than everyone else in the world. While I do think he is brilliant, I would imagine that he would surround himself with quality advisors and cabinet members, and take counsel of them as needed. A President isn't meant to govern in isolation. Teamwork is extremely important to lead the country effectively & within the bounds of the law and with respect for the powers of the presidency.

Trump has had a revolving cast of characters in his cabinet, and he is now scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of competence, knowledge and skill. And it is his fault, because he fired anyone who tells him something that bruises his extremely fragile ego or doesn't treat him like the king he wants to be. He wanted to be untethered, and that is exactly what he got. To the great shame and detriment of our country.


The only thing I don't understand is how this isn't obvious to everyone. Instead we get accused of having a hidden agenda or suffering from mental illness for not willing to embrace Trump as our king.
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 2:27 pm
roses wrote:
I think the person's personal qualities are most important- intelligence, judgement, reasoning, problem solving abilities, integrity, character. The person's past history in whatever industry they are coming from is also extremely important. Did they conduct themselves with integrity and respect for the law? The person also needs to be educated and demonstrate a working knowledge and expertise in world affairs, domestic affairs and the law. The person also needs to be someone who values other people's expertise and consults with others when his information may be lacking. And respect and consider the views of others who may have different views than him.

That being said, I don't think the Ukraine scandal was accidental. Trump has a long history of just not caring about the law at all. He has always had lawyers to mop up his legal messes, and he's gotten away with so much, that he truly thinks he is above the law. I think he very much knew that what he was doing was wrong- but he relied on the people around him to maintain the code of silence. And to mop up his messes. It is clear that he really doesn't care about US national security interests, and that he is treating the presidency as one big smorgasbord of abuse of power- wherever he could grab it in the world. That has been his strategy his whole life on a smaller scale, and now as president, he has taken it to a much larger, dangerous and damaging scale. He has never demonstrated an iota of care for anyone except himself and Ivanka (creepy relationship) so we have no reason to expect him to behave differently as president. What he did in Ukraine is straight out of his usual playbook.


There is no “Ukraine scandal.” It’s yet another in a series of dem hoaxes.
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 2:29 pm
banana123 wrote:
I think the bigger question is, why are the "professionals" all so horrible that we've had enough of them and are searching for something else?


Considering that an “unprofessional” president, as OP puts it, has managed to break records bringing us an unprecedented high economy, stock market, jobs, low unemployment, and so much more, makes the premise of this entire thread irrelevant.


Last edited by Cheiny on Thu, Nov 14 2019, 2:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 2:33 pm
banana123 wrote:
I think the bigger question is, why are the "professionals" all so horrible that we've had enough of them and are searching for something else?


Precisely because a majority of Americans were sick and tired of typical (many corrupt) politicians who care more about their careers and political power than the good of the country and its citizens whom they are supposed to be working for! That’s exactly what we’re seeing in today’s dem party. They have zero patriotism, have been wasting years, and many millions of taxpayer dollars on endless and fruitless investigations into the president, hoping to find a crime to impeach him on, instead of doing the work and the will of the people. They are thoroughly corrupt and they will pay dearly for that at the ballot box next year.
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 2:37 pm
[quote="roses]

Trump.... is now scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of competence, knowledge and skill. [/quote]

So here’s a serious question I’m wondering if you can answer. If he is so lacking in competence, knowledge and skill, as you say, how do you suppose he’s managed to be so successful bringing us a record breaking economy, stock market, low unemployment, number of jobs....

I’m imagining you’ll answer in one of two ways:
1) All of the above are just not true
2) it’s all to Obama’s credit

Waiting....
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 2:40 pm
Jeanette wrote:
The only thing I don't understand is how this isn't obvious to everyone. Instead we get accused of having a hidden agenda or suffering from mental illness for not willing to embrace Trump as our king.


That’s because most people feel that labeling someone a buffoon, while completely ignoring his huge record breaking accomplishments for our country, seems irrational and without merit.

Obviously most people in the dem party don’t agree that any of the candidates trying to become the dem nominee are viable or could beat Trump...hence Bloomberg, Deval Patrick, and possibly Hilary are all possibly going to try throwing their hats in! And that’s a pretty astonishing and honest admission from dems, considering that all the fake polls are showing any dem leading Trump! (Ala 2016 “Hilary has a 99.5% chance of beating Trump! How’d that one work out for ya?)


Last edited by Cheiny on Thu, Nov 14 2019, 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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itsmeima




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 2:41 pm
Cheiny wrote:
There is no “Ukraine scandal.” It’s yet another in a series of dem hoaxes.


(step 1) Trump withheld aid from Ukraine, and then (step 2) asked the President of Ukraine “I would like you to do us a favor, though ...” (step 3) to investigate his 2020 political rival - Biden

Thanks for giving me another opportunity to set the record straight.

(I personally think he's not scared of Joe Biden, he asked for a "favor" simply because he's the President and he thinks he can...)
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itsmeima




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 2:41 pm
Cheiny wrote:
Consider that an “unprofessional” president, as OP puts it, has managed to break records bringing us an unprecedented high economy, stock market, jobs, low unemployment, and so much more, makes the premise of this entire thread irrelevant.


Hey Kelly Hi You didn't answer the question.
Would you vote for someone without political experience in 2024?
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Rubber Ducky




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 3:02 pm
For sure I would vote for someone with no political experience for president — again!

I am not fond of career politicans with no private enterprise experience in general.
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Jeanette




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 3:12 pm
"Unprofessional" and "lacking political experience" are two different things.

I can see myself voting for someone who lacked political experience but had a distinguished professional career in a different area. An unprofessional person? Never. Professionalism is essential for functioning in any large organization and serving the public.

The problems with Trump go way beyond political inexperience, for reasons already eloquently stated by Roses.
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banana123




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 3:19 pm
Look, I'm not in the US so I don't feel I have a right to say anything.
But I sure do prefer Trump to Obummer. Obummer was horrible for Israel, he and Kerry both. Horrible. All of us over here, some of us are fans of Trump and some of us (like my husband and I) are just "ehhh we'll see how he does" but he is a much better friend to Israel than his predecessor was.
Can't say I'll vote for him in 2020 though because after that he won't be up for re-election, so he can basically do what he wants risk-free. Obummer was decent in his first term, it was his second term, when he knew he wasn't going to be re-elected anyways, that he started hurting Israel at every opportunity.
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Jeanette




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 3:26 pm
banana123 wrote:
Look, I'm not in the US so I don't feel I have a right to say anything.
But I sure do prefer Trump to Obummer. Obummer was horrible for Israel, he and Kerry both. Horrible. All of us over here, some of us are fans of Trump and some of us (like my husband and I) are just "ehhh we'll see how he does" but he is a much better friend to Israel than his predecessor was.
Can't say I'll vote for him in 2020 though because after that he won't be up for re-election, so he can basically do what he wants risk-free. Obummer was decent in his first term, it was his second term, when he knew he wasn't going to be re-elected anyways, that he started hurting Israel at every opportunity.


Why is it that only Trumpists feel the need to use terms like "Obummer", " "shifty schiff" and worse? Don't you realize how ignorant it makes you sound and how it weakens your entire argument?

I guess once you go all in with Trump you lose all awareness of how this sounds.
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small bean




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 3:28 pm
[quote="itsmeima"]Would you vote for someone without political experience (again)?

(I personally think the who Ukraine thing kind of "just happened" I don't it was something Trump quite planned, and it would be kind of sad if that's the thing that ends is presidency.)[/quot

How are you defining inexperience?
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banana123




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 3:29 pm
Jeanette wrote:
Why is it that only Trumpists feel the need to use terms like "Obummer", " "shifty schiff" and worse? Don't you realize how ignorant it makes you sound and how it weakens your entire argument?

I guess once you go all in with Trump you lose all awareness of how this sounds.

I was calling him deragatory nicknames in 2011. When I heard the nickname Obummer I loved it instantly and switched from my standard (lame, IMO) nicknames for him to that. Nothing to do with Trump.

If you look at how Kerry's name is spelled in Hebrew it is pretty funny. The guy totally deserves it. Laugh


Last edited by banana123 on Thu, Nov 14 2019, 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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small bean




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 3:30 pm
Jeanette wrote:
Why is it that only Trumpists feel the need to use terms like "Obummer", " "shifty schiff" and worse? Don't you realize how ignorant it makes you sound and how it weakens your entire argument?

I guess once you go all in with Trump you lose all awareness of how this sounds.


Obama was bummer before trump. I think some hosts start things like that. I'm in agreement that it sounds dumb
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