Spinoff: A frum family needs two incomes?

amother

Saddlebrown

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 8:28 pm

I have a degree (bachelors and masters actually , from non-jewish schools) that if I were willing to commute to a major city would make me around 200k . If I want to work locally it’s more like 60-85k.

My dh has a degree , couldn’t find a job in his degree, started a company and now makes around 250k after only being open for a few years.

I would only encourage my kids to go to college if it were necessary for their goals (I.e psychologist or lawyer or physical therapist).

amother

Jade

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 8:29 pm

amother [ Orchid ] wrote:

Because for every one person that makes it, there's probably a dozen or more who didn't. Constantly bringing up examples of people who have made it as proof there's no issue in our society is putting on blinders. And it gets very very very frustrating to the those struggling.

I repeat - just because some can make it in the system, doesn't mean that we need to deny the others opportunities for them to make it too.

So it's time to acknowledge that our system unnecessarily creates undue hardships for many. And lets brainstorm ways to help the future generation avoid those pitfalls.

No you're missing the point. What were trying to prove is that its NOT the degree that will make it or break it. Nor is it the education. Very many people are successful with no education and you'll also find many highly educated people that wilt away at their jobs with no opportunities to grow.
When a person opens a business, the sky is the limit. But when a person has a degree, they could go work for a major firm and earn a salary, and that's it.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I rather view a degree as a dead-end, than a long term opportunity...

amother

Maroon

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 8:35 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

and I would like to know what you mean by "does Amazon"? And he and all those that you know that "do Amazon" did they get help with start up costs? Did they have some sort of "in"? As another poster hinted at: if it were that easy, everyone would be doing it.

I would probably say that he got in relatively early. Like 8-9 years ago and it was easier then. He used our wedding money to buy products and it just grew from there. What sort of “in”??

There are people in Lakewood making millions off of Amazon. He’s totally not big for Amazon.

amother

Mistyrose

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 8:39 pm

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

Not everyone is cut out to be a businessman. I'm the OP from the other thread, and my DH is not interested in starting a business. There are a lot of people like my husband, and a lot of them are not making it.

Just btw, my husband is in a field that you don't need a degree for, and many do very well in this field (he has a BTL if that counts). Obviously everything is bashert though...

What I was actually upset about was the expectation in the frum community for two incomes, yet practically speaking even after we work, it's very hard to come home with a decent amount of money if you factor in childcare and taxes (the second income is taxed at a higher bracket). Not to mention that many of us would like to raise our children ourselves, and not outsource them to hired help.

This has nothing to do with yeshivish, Chassidish or MO, the expectations are unrealistic all over. MO couples may earn more, but their expenses are higher as well. I'm not looking to change my hashkafa, I'm just looking for someone to acknowledge that it's not so simple.

amother

Slateblue

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 9:02 pm

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

Why are you all so one track minded with degrees and education??
So many people I know are loaded with money from Amazon, construction, real estate, many types of businesses. And no they did not get a professional education.
They learnt to be great entrepreneurs through resilience and strong upbringings.

People you know are "loaded"? I have never heard that kind of slang applied to frum Jews. Your use of that term alone makes me doubt your info.

cnc

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 9:22 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

It's rather crass imo

It can be crass, but that doesn’t mean her information is not accurate.

(FTR- I come from a family where we all have degrees, and married into a family where they mostly don’t. The ones without the degrees are doing way better financially than the ones with degrees.)

amother

Mistyrose

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 9:36 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

People you know are "loaded"? I have never heard that kind of slang applied to frum Jews. Your use of that term alone makes me doubt your info.

I hear this term all the time in the frum world actually, and also her information is accurate. There is much more potential to make money in business than as a salaried worker.

amother

Orchid

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 9:37 pm

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

You keep on reaching to extremes to make your point. No one is guaranteed anything. Self employed entrepreneurs can fail very easily & people with degrees may not find a right position for themselves. But that doesn't mean because anything can fail, we need to deny people the proper preparations to best prepare for life. That's hishtadlus. We prepare ourselves, and then Hashems does his.

(And just a FYI 30% of new businesses fail within the 1st 2 years, 50% during 5 years and 66% during the first 10. So relying on entrepreneurship as a means of a parnossoh is probably less strategic than relying on a degree. )

amother

Floralwhite

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 9:44 pm

my dh tried to start a business with a neighbor. We are trying to recoup some of the money from the neighbor but even after we recoup some we still will have lost the thousands upon thousands of dollars we put in. My dh went back to his professional job which he has a degree for.

amother

Slateblue

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 9:44 pm

amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote:

What do you lose if your business fails? Most come away with most of the money they invested. A degree that's not used is money thrown down the drain.

Where in the world do you get your "facts" from? If you earn a degree, it can never be taken away from you. Being "college educated" means something.

amother

Orchid

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 9:47 pm

amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote:

What do you lose if your business fails? Most come away with most of the money they invested. A degree that's not used is money thrown down the drain.

Where did you take that from. Many businesses take out loans or require a large influx of cash to get off ground. MANY of the failed ones never recoup their investments.

amother

Orchid

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 9:50 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

Where in the world do you get your "facts" from? If you earn a degree, it can never be taken away from you. Being "college educated" means something.

And also, a degree, even if not used for years, can be something to fall back on. One may need to brush up one some courses, but once you earn that degree, it's can be utilized anytime.

amother

Mistyrose

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 9:50 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

Where in the world do you get your "facts" from? If you earn a degree, it can never be taken away from you. Being "college educated" means something.

In what way does being college educated mean something? If you don't use your degree for a job, you may feel accomplished, but financially, it IS a waste of money.

amother

Slateblue

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 9:56 pm

amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote:

In what way does being college educated mean something? If you don't use your degree for a job, you may feel accomplished, but financially, it IS a waste of money.

It means something to potential employers. You "earn" a degree. It is not easy. You have proven that you can stick with your major; that you can balance all of the requirements that college requires.

amother

Mistyrose

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 9:57 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

It means something to potential employers. You "earn" a degree. It is not easy. You have proven that you can stick with your major; that you can balance all of the requirements that college requires.

It means nothing where I live. Maybe it means something in the big wide world, but not in "frumsville".