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Ema of 5

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 8:47 pm

amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:

How will healthy people staying home slow down the spreading of the virus? Sick people should stay home. Healthy people pose no risk to spreading the virus. The world can't shut down because of a virus that's less dangerous than the flu. People are in panic mode. Panic never helps.

Of course they do!! That can get sick, and they can catch it, just like anyone else. Being healthy actually poses a bigger risk to those who ARE at risk, because many people don’t even realize they have it, or are walking around with it before they become symptomatic. Being healthy means they are at a lower risk of complications. It doesn’t mean they can’t carry and transfer the virus.

amother

Teal

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 8:47 pm

imasoftov wrote:

Dear Friends,

We are writing with an important update regarding COVID-19 and the ongoing health situation in our community.

Last night, the rabbis of the Rabbinical Council of Bergen County (RCBC), the presidents of our shuls, and the heads of our local schools gathered to meet with representatives of local government, including the Teaneck Department of Health and expert physicians from our three local hospitals: Englewood Health, Hackensack University Medical Center, and Holy Name Medical Center.

The message from the healthcare providers was clear. They need our help to slow the spread of the disease before their resources are overwhelmed. The doctors expressed significant concern regarding the capacity of our local hospitals to meet the growing needs of their patients in the event of a (expected) large surge in cases of COVID-19. They reported that while the amount of cases is still low, it seems to be increasing rapidly. Even if patients of COVID-19 will be treatable, we may deplete our resources and other patients who suffer from ordinary, serious illnesses will not be able to get the necessary care, putting their lives in danger.

Slowing the spread of the disease will allow our hospitals to best manage this situation. The only way to do this is for us to socially distance ourselves from one another. Moreover, the doctors emphasized that the most significant community closure possible will make the greatest impact in potentially saving lives in our area.

We have therefore made the very difficult decision to adopt the following policies of social distancing in our community. We intend to re-evaluate our policies next week on the basis of the expert guidance provided by the medical leadership of the three local hospitals. This panel will guide us as we continually monitor the ongoing situation as it evolves. We collectively agree to abide by the decisions reached by our lay, educational and rabbinic leadership on the basis of expert medical advice, to uniformly adhere to these standards, and to communicate collectively.

We must all try our best to stay home with only our immediate family for now and to avoid unnecessary contact with others, and particularly with substantial groups. We should only leave when it is truly necessary. Thus:

1. All community members are strongly encouraged to work from home, if possible, and to stay home whenever possible. It is critical for adults to set the right example.

2. As the schools are currently closed, there should not be playdates between children of different families. This would undermine the entire purpose of the school closing.

3. Shuls will be closed for all minyanim and shiurim effective Friday morning, March 13. There should be no house minyanim. All of the rabbis will be davening alone in their own homes. Please daven at home, individually.

4. There should be no public celebrations for smachot.

5. People should not have gatherings for Shabbat meals.

6. Shiva visits should be replaced by phone/video calls.

7. Levayot should be restricted to a small group of family members and a minyan.

8. Refrain from contact sports.

9. Restaurants should not seat customers. People should order for pick-up and delivery only.

10. The Mikvaot will remain open, at the guidance of CDC and local health authorities. Women under mandatory quarantine or who are experiencing symptoms of illness may not use the mikvah. Please consult your rav for further clarification or for specific questions.

As you can see, these represent significant changes to our lives and many detailed questions will certainly emerge. This brief outline cannot guide every particular situation. We will all have to address each circumstance as it comes up based on professional expertise and religious guidance.

It is with a very heavy heart that we are suspending so many of the most crucial routines of our daily lives and lifecycle moments. We do this only because of the compelling nature of our circumstance and the decisive medical testimonies that are consistent with CDC recommendations. These measures are adopted as a reflection of our overarching commitment to the sanctity of all human life, and we pray that these will be very temporary measures. Please take these days as a critical opportunity to intensify our tefilot to the Rofeh Ne’eman that all those ill will be healed and that our community will be shielded from any further harm.

Sincerely, The Rabbinical Council of Bergen County

westchester and greenwhich ct did the same

amother

Copper

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 9:02 pm

Because people are contagious for 2 full weeks before they look & feel sick. And the virus has a range of infecting approximately for 7 feet.

amother

Wine

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 9:04 pm

Bc there have been so many threats in the past of what will happen, hurricanes, global warming, zika, measles, swine flu, sars, ebola, etc. Im sick of believing everything on the news!

And Bc 'they are predicting' this and that will happen is not enough to stop my life, and rely on these predictions. This madness can last 2 weeks or 2 months! Should I buy cages for my kids and lock them up? Seriously, how do we quarantine a bunch of lively kids?

Its easy for others to say stay away from everyone...... WHERE WERE YOU ON PURIM?!? You ran around with your greatly themed shaloch manos. The streets were packed! 2 days later you're yelling keep your kids home - until what?!

I have one life to live, and want to live. Not in fear of everything you hear on the news. Theyre wrong most of the time anyways..

This is not about logic, its emotions and anxiety. People are panicking bc noone can predict what will be. Enough with this madness. Let Hashem run the world.

Anon bc noone will agree with me anyways. Its a lost cause.

amother

Mauve

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 9:12 pm

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

Bc there have been so many threats in the past of what will happen, hurricanes, global warming, zika, measles, flu, sars, ebola, etc. Im sick of believing everything on the news!

And Bc 'they are predicting' this and that will happen is not enough to stop my life, and rely on these predictions. This madness can last 2 weeks or 2 months! Should I buy cages for my kids and lock them up? Seriously, how do we quarantine a bunch of lively kids?

Its easy for others to say stay away from everyone...... WHERE WERE YOU ON PURIM?!? You ran around with your greatly themed shaloch manos. The streets were packed! 2 days later you're yelling keep your kids home - until what?!

I have one life to live, and want to live. Not in fear of everything you hear on the news. Theyre wrong most of the time anyways..

This is not about logic, its emotions and anxiety. People are panicking bc noone can predict what will be. Enough with this madness. Let Hashem run the world.

Anon bc noone will agree with me anyways. Its a lost cause.

Your response is totally emotional and full of anxiety. Logic dictates quarantine and social distancing.

amother

Smokey

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 9:16 pm

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

I agree with one of the PP that name calling ("spoiled toddlers") is inappropriate. At the same time, I don't see how you could think that this is overblown giving what is happening in Italy, unless you think that all the horrible reports coming out of Italy are "fake news".

amother

Tangerine

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 9:42 pm

southernbubby wrote:

If the virus actually chas v'sholem infected many people to the point where they were too sick to work, wouldn't that also affect the economy?

the key word being 'if'

amother

Wine

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 11:04 pm

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

Your response is totally emotional and full of anxiety. Logic dictates quarantine and social distancing.

I bet you didnt go anywhere on Purim, and you still don't go out shopping..RIGHT?

You probably have a bunch of kids that are home from school, play nicely, and ch"v NOT with any neighbors.

amother

Wine

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 11:13 pm

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

So I understand preventing flights, but how is it gonna help to keep kids home from school here? If I heard correct, the cases didn't even affect kids.

Im not denying that things are going on in Italy. I refuse to get all freaked out on all the 'predictions' of what will be here. Noone really knows what will be and the country is in panic mode with all their theories. History has taught me many predictions were overblown. Sorry, I refuse to get caught up in this chaos.

amother

Mauve

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 11:31 pm

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

So I understand preventing flights, but how is it gonna help to keep kids home from school here? If I heard correct, the cases didn't affect kids.

Im not denying that things are going on in Italy. I refuse to get all freaked out on all the 'predictions'. Noone really knows what will be and the country is in panic mode with all their theories. History has taught me many predictions were overblown. Sorry, I refuse to get caught up in this chaos.

I don't know why you see this as a black and white issue - either chaos or disregard for the precautions being set in place. No one is asking you to get freaked out. No one is asking you to worry about predictions. Nor is anyone asking you to lock yourself into a bunker.

What is being asked of you is to implement social distancing. Not to gather in groups, try to avoid mingling with others, and implement extra hygienic measures. What needs to be done right now is to reduce the vast number of possible hosts that this virus currently has so that it can be contained. Children, while mostly not affected, are carriers. As is any other person who has come in contact with the virus. It can also live on surfaces for a good period of time, more than enough time to be transmitted to someone else.

If we can reduce the caseload, it will be a very manageable situation in where we can properly treat the afflicted. If not, it will overwhelm the medical system and cause a collapse with vast repercussions. Similarly, the financial situation can be handled to manage a few weeks of interruptions, but if cases spiral out of control it will have much farther reaching repercussions.

History has taught that many predictions were overblown, but it also has taught us that many warnings were overlooked. Let's err on the side of caution.

amother

Honeydew

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 11:50 pm

Excuse my ignorance, but what is going on in Italy?

amother

Wine

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 12:06 am

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

So yes, I believe in caution. Avoid contact with ppl, wash hands, hygiene, and avoiding germs. (Altho I wonder how mikva for women will work..but thats for another thread)

We are not done yet though. Next they're taking further actions like quarantining ppl, banning employees, banning schools, and shopping. And everyone is freaking out with masks, purell, going to simchos, and whatnot bc of whats happening in China and Italy.

Its insane and doesnt even make sense.

amother

Mauve

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 12:16 am

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

So you believe in the hygiene aspect of the precautions. But you disagree with the social distancing aspect of it (I understand, this is much harder). But it's equally necessary.

- People who were exposed, should be quarantined.
- Closing schools and discouraging unnecessary shopping is what's needed for social distancing.
- Not mingling in large crowds at simchas is also necessary for social distancing.
- Banning employees - where is that happening. People are told to wfh, which is also necessary for social distancing.

And it's not because of whats happening in China and Italy - its because of what happening right here, in our towns and cities. The numbers are rising exponentially on a daily basis. If you need to see it for yourself, take a trip to an ER in Manhattan.

What's insane about inconveniencing society in an attempt to save thousands of lives (and to prevent a total medical and financial collapse)?

imorethanamother

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 12:18 am

amother [ Crimson ] wrote:

So should doctors and nurses keep their kids home from school and stay home to take care of them? So that they don't act like spoiled selfish toddlers?

Exactly. Who else should stay home besides all the health workers, so that we all aren’t “spoiled selfish toddlers”?

How about the people that work in water sanitation? So that your toilets back up AND your faucet water is unclean?

How about the people that oversee and operate your local power plants?

How about the people that pick up your garbage?

How about police?

How about fire fighters?

How about people in factories that make your medicines? Your antibiotics? Your asthma medication? Your toilet paper that you so unselfishly bought 800 rolls of?

How about the people that work on farms? How about people that work in dairies and in slaughterhouses?

How about people that work in food processing plants?

How about people that work to transport your food? Your mail?

How about the people that work at your local groceries and food markets?

How about the people that make sure the dollar doesn’t plummet to zero?

Would you like total societal collapse? Or does it seem just the least bit sensible to simply stay home if you’re starting to feel sick, rather than pre-emptively shut the world down?

amother

Black

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 12:20 am

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

why doesn't it makes sense?

imorethanamother

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 12:21 am

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

Because people are contagious for 2 full weeks before they look & feel sick. And the virus has a range of infecting approximately for 7 feet.

The virus is in its very early stages, and there’s a lot we don’t know. One article suggested that people shed the virus before they’re sick, and even that one - reading between the lines - meant that they were starting to feel unwell. It’s definitely not conclusive that people are contagious the second they’re exposed to a virus in the incubation stage. Which is what your wrote.

The CDC maintains, as per the latest information, that people shed the most virus when they’re actively sick. And when you sneeze, yes, droplets can reach that far.

amother

Mauve

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 12:28 am

imorethanamother wrote:

They're not idiots. They're doing this with some sense to it. No one is pre-emptively shutting the world down. They're encouraging those who can, to work from home. Those whose jobs aren't critical to the daily grind of society, are also encouraged to stay put. For everyone else, they're instructing them on personal protection strategies to keep themselves safe.

So the fire-fighters are out there doing their job. The police are out there doing the job. The companies producing anti-virals, masks, medical equipment & food are all out there doing their job. As are delivery guys, sanitation workers and so on.

If those who can, stay home. And those who must be out there, follow the safety protocols, it will reduce the spread of the virus. But if there people out there who feel they have a better handle on the situation than those in the know, and they bristle at any inconvenience thrown their way, then we will have some sort of collapse.

So, yeah, we may not be able to do our normal clothes shopping for Pesach. And, yeah, we may have to figure out activities for our bored kids, or find baby-sitters for them while we have to work. And we may have to do without our usual comfort food and routines, but why not work together to move past this as soon as possible?

carnation

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 12:31 am

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

I can only speak for myself but I have to work which is why I can’t pull my kid out of school. I work in healthcare which not only doesn’t shut down but needs me even more during times like these. So until and unless my kids school closes (Gd forbid) she’s there. Plus, how will all the schools who ban internet provide e learning?)

Teleconference. Google Teleground. I know they have been bombarded with requests for new accounts in the last few days for schools and yeshivas that don't allow internet. Their students will hear the lessons via phone.

amother

Mauve

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 12:31 am

imorethanamother wrote:

You're overlooking one huge factor. That many people are carriers without being affected by it. They will never know they're affected, but will be spreading it around to many others.

And you yourself just stated that there's so much we don't know. One article states this, and you can find another article stating the opposite. Being that so many lives are at stake, doesn't it make sense to err on the side of caution, than throw caution into the wind?

amother

Mauve

Fri, Mar 13 2020, 12:34 am

carnation wrote:

[/b]

Teleconference. Google Teleground. I know they have been bombarded with requests for new accounts in the last few days for schools and yeshivas that don't allow internet. Their students will hear the lessons via phone.

I don't know how this would actually work, as its very difficult to retain information with lessons via the phone. Visual, and interactive learning drives the message home. Listen to someone droning on over the phone, without the ability to ask questions and with so many other distractions around you, won't do much for many.

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