It's too late; everyone's been exposed. NY/NJ

crust

Fri, Mar 27 2020, 2:06 am

Mama Bear wrote:

There are plenty of ppl who havent caught it yet. And they'd like to remain that way. So no, we can't return to normal until the numbers of new cases start to drop.

That's a very valid reason for staying in your own home.

I posted this on another thread as well.

Governer Coumo thinks quarantine spread the virus.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=.....pcf=1

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Mar 27 2020, 4:53 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I didn't say social distancing doesn't help.

All I said is that the shutdowns, quarantining and isolating were instituted way way too late and are pointless by now.

but why pountless? However many deaths it can stop, isnt it worth it? If there is no social distancing or lock downs you are going to see complete cities, towns, communities be completely wiped out. Would that be better?

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Mar 27 2020, 4:55 am

crust wrote:

That's a very valid reason for staying in your own home.

I posted this on another thread as well.

Governer Coumo thinks quarantine spread the virus.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=.....pcf=1

im sorry but anyone who says that quarantine is actually spreading the virus cant be that smart. Seriously!

amother

Chocolate

Fri, Mar 27 2020, 5:13 am

I get it. It's overwhelming and seemingly unmanageable.
At the same time we do our hishtadlus to protect ourselves we can avail ourselves to connect to the Ribbono Shel Olam for protection. I believe Rav Biderman has expressed the concept not to fear the disease but Hakadosh Baruch Hu.
May Hashem protect us all and give us the strength to get through this very very difficult time. Sending love to you all.

FranticFrummie

Fri, Mar 27 2020, 5:23 am

This makes me SO FURIOUS!

I was very sick well before Purim, with all they symptoms in the book.

Every single doctor I spoke to said "Calm down. You just have the flu. Go about your daily business." Basically, they brushed me off like I was some attention seeking crazy lady.

I CHOSE to put myself in isolation, long before anyone even thought of it. According to everyone I spoke to, they said I was over reacting. I said "Even if it IS just the flu, why would I want to expose anyone else?"

There are some certain people in the world, who I would love to cough on right now, except I don't think I'm contagious anymore. (Yet I still wear a full mask and gloves whenever I leave the house.)

Sometimes, I really hate being right. Sad

FranticFrummie

Fri, Mar 27 2020, 5:29 am

amother [ Green ] wrote:

How would states really and truly enforce closed borders? I can't imagine it would be simple.

Imagine if the whole country as put on Amber Alert. Strategically placed road blocks and check points on major interstate freeways would cut down a huge amount of traffic. It wouldn't stop people using surface roads and going off the beaten path, but it would make a major impact.
-------------

I was just thinking about the middle ages, and the Black Plague. People in large cities died in huge numbers, but people who lived way out in isolated rural areas survived for the most part, as long as they didn't go into town.

Of course, elderly single women who survived were burned as witches, because "Satan protected them." Rolling Eyes

As an older single woman with 2 cats, I am particularly grateful that I do not live in those times.

amother

cornflower

Fri, Mar 27 2020, 7:32 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Source???

Uhh....logic???

What we know from other viruses?

Of course we don't know anything 1000% with the coronavirus yet, but absolutely there is a scientific basis for saying that if you were exposed to a larger concentration then you are more likely to get sick.

Just because YOU don't see the point in following the guidelines doesn't mean there isn't one. Please.

saw50st8

Fri, Mar 27 2020, 9:17 am

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

What about us, wives of essential workers?

DH works in essential (a new minted name of an elite profession) leaving me home the first quarantine week without help. Now for the second quarantine week he is writhing with pain and discomfort sick in bed having contracted the virus through exposure.

Now here I am, no help, a sick husband, with a huge chance that ch"v by next week I will begin showing symptoms and I don't want my brain to go there. My house is hanging by a thread now, I am petrified.

I don't know what your husband does, but I work in an essential industry. I am lucky enough that my position allows me to work from home, but some jobs are really essential. It's unfortunately a tough position to be in.

If essential workers stopped working, you would be without power, water, telephone, internet, hospitals and medical professionals, grocery stores etc.

I still empathize with your position. It is a very tough position to be in. Being an "essential employee" comes with a lot of responsibility and a lot of downsides. I hope your husband recovers easily and the rest of your family stays safe.

Dandelion1

Fri, Mar 27 2020, 9:20 am

crust wrote:

That's a very valid reason for staying in your own home.

I posted this on another thread as well.

Governer Coumo thinks quarantine spread the virus.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=.....pcf=1

How do you get that from what he said? Alls he said was that younger people quarantined with older people could be dangerous for the older people. Which is why I won't let my mother come to our house, and I leave all food packages sprayed and outside her door.

But if we lived together, there would be no choice would there? So how does that wisdom even help? Nobody can buy a new house to quarantine in.

And with all due respect, of what particular value is his opinion? He has no medical or scientific knowledge.

amother

Lime

Fri, Mar 27 2020, 9:41 am

crust wrote:

Again. This is all true 6 weeks ago.

Shabbatiscoming, I dont think you understand that we started TOO LATE.

Social distancing can still help. Quarantine? Meh.

I have immediate family members who have/had it. BH I'm feeling OK. I still will only do delivery or curbside pickup shopping. I have no idea what I might be shedding, or if this mild cough I have is coronavirus.

mig100

Fri, Mar 27 2020, 10:37 am

amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:

Beautiful post

amother

Lawngreen

Fri, Mar 27 2020, 10:38 am

amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:

Much easier said than done.

youngishbear

Fri, Mar 27 2020, 10:52 am

Simply put: exposure does not equal infection.

Perhaps most people in NY have been exposed, but if they were careful with handwashing or aren't face touchers or happened to have avoided inhaling at the wrong moment... they have not caught it. Yet.

Staying home keeps those people from catching it. Every 100 people who don't catch it means several fewer ventilators needed, another few lives saved.

If you have it - don't spread it
If you don't - don't get it

#StayHome

sima

Fri, Mar 27 2020, 11:28 am

That is simply not true. You cannot give up quarantine and social distancing now. Imagine how many more would be infected if we had not had these past two weeks or so of closures, and the upcoming weeks we need to remain shut. There would be and will be many more if we don't distance ourselves and stay in!!!! China was able to stop it because they had extensive shut downs and government enforcement, nothing like we have here. I'm very worried for us because we aren't doing enough actually, although it feels like we are, and yes, it is hard.

sima

Fri, Mar 27 2020, 11:32 am

Also I do not think that so many have been exposed even in NY where I live. I don't believe ( I could be wrong) that there are so many cases that go by without any symptoms at all. So don't think that you have been exposed and therefore have antibodies and it's safe to go out. You probably haven't been exposed I'd say.

Miri1

Fri, Mar 27 2020, 12:05 pm

Firstly:
I read recently that the vast majority of those tested in NJ were negative. That is cumulative, so I'm sure the ratios are changing.
But that means that there have been plenty of other things going around. So just because you are sick, or coughing, does not mean you have it (unless you've actually been allowed a test). You absolutely must act as though you do, but don't assume you are now immune and that you had it, because you may not have! (I'm sure with the social distancing, other viruses will also be going around less, so the chances will increase of course.)

Secondly:
Cuomo did say that over the past week the spread has decreased the rate of doubling (there are still astronomical numbers, but at not at the previous pace , and he does attribute it to the social distancing. (Of course everything is changing, so perhaps tomorrow this will not be the case Sad

Thirdly:
Even though the frum community has larger numbers living together at home, this fact may not increase the load on the hospitals, because even if the entire household becomes sick ch"v, the majority of those in each household are not at high risk of hopitalization iy'H.
Therefore, the most important thing is to just stay home and keep it to yourselves. Once people roam, there will ch"v be a toll.

Don't give into the fatalistic attitude you're hearing around you.
It will take a while until we really see the benefits of the isolation approach, but giving up will ruin all our efforts until now.

Refuah sheleima to all![b]

edited to clarify some important points

Last edited by Miri1 on Fri, Mar 27 2020, 12:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Brown

Fri, Mar 27 2020, 12:08 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Firstly, we are discussing NY/NJ. Other states can be saved if they close their borders and institute a MILITARY lockdown.

And yes, I do understand flattening the curve but there is nothing to flatten anymore. Whoever is going to get it is going to get it.
Quarantine ain't gonna help.
We're way too late.

Oh yeah martial law is going to go over real well in this country.

mig100

Fri, Mar 27 2020, 5:25 pm

im still thinking about this op and I am just shocked. I really dont understand how any sane person who values life can say such a thingl

only explanation I can think of is that they are just too stupid to understand science.

most shocking thing I have ever read on any frum website. ever.

please dont try to explain yourself unless you have a very good explanation. I will be blunt