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How do you stand wearing tights in hot weather?
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Ora in town




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, May 17 2020, 7:47 am
amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:
You missed the point. Knee highs can fall down. Everyone that I know who wears them says this as well. I wear tights and never had my underwear show. I don’t understand why you wear shorts so people can possibly see that instead of underwear. As you stated it’s assur all around. This statement is extremely surprising coming from a frum woman. I wouldn’t want anyone seeing my thighs regardless of the covering or non covering.

If people are seeing your shorts it’s not a tights problem, it’s a problem with your own dress.

So why do you need a skirt at all?
Why not go out just in tighs, if it solves all halachic problems about what can be seen between knee and waist? (In those cases where the skirt slips up)
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amother




Forestgreen
 

Post  Sun, May 17 2020, 7:59 am
amother [ Khaki ] wrote:
Okay I'm NOT explaining myself well.

1. Not ALL knee highs fall down. If they do a bit, my skirts are long enough to cover that gap and I do pick them up once or twice a day.

2. I wear shorts because of chub rub (thighs rubbing together and making a rash) Also it's near impossible to find well fitted tights for me that don't droop a bit and create chub rub.

3. I don't want ANYONE seeing my shorts either! But I am an adventurous young woman. I climb trees, scale fences, jump from ledges, etc - if my skirts does go up (which is can) I feel more comfortable in cotton shorts than tights.

4. Also when there's one run on tights you gotta chuck them out. When there's a run on a knee high the other one is still good.

5. Knee highs are cheaper.

6. Knee highs are more comfortable.

I am just saying people I know with tights are often wearing skirts that JUST cover the knee, and don't realize when they go up as the whole area is covered with tights. When my skirts goes up I can FEEL it because I feel the skin exposed to the air and I think it makes you more careful about skirt length.


Of course I don't want to show my thighs..thoughts that was clear. I really made sure to wear midi skirts that won't go up over the knee when walking up stairs, getting out of cars etc.


If you wear tights you very well know when it goes above the knee- if the skirts just cover the knee, it’s not the tights that’s the problem. It’s obvious that a skirt just covering will expose the knee. A black/nude knee is still a knee.
It’s a personal and, like you said, a comfort choice . I personally like tights because I don’t want to awkwardly pull up tights during the day. It’s not better or worse to wear knee highs- it’s what works for you.
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amother




Olive
 

Post  Sun, May 17 2020, 7:59 am
I hate going out without pantyhose/tights
I feel like I’m half dressed.
I also hate the feeling of my thighs rubbing against each other and tights solves the problem.
The control top makes me feel so much better about myself.
When I was very sick recently with covid 19 I couldn’t get dressed in anything but a cotton night gown. I absolutely couldn’t wear a bra or pantyhose. But that was only when I was sick. Once I recovered I was back to wearing everything and feel better like that.
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giselle




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, May 17 2020, 8:01 am
crust wrote:
I still don't understand how tights became Minhag hamakom? There is a way that a Minhag hamakom is established.

It is definitely not a Chumra either.

Just like you can't say that a one piece dress is a Chumra.

A dress is a method of covering yourself. Doesn't matter if its a one, two or three piece dress. As long as it covers you it serves its purpose.

I’m so confused. Wasn’t there just a whole thread about people who said three year old girls have to wear tights?
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crust




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, May 17 2020, 8:31 am
giselle wrote:
I’m so confused. Wasn’t there just a whole thread about people who said three year old girls have to wear tights?



There was. Not that I read through it but what are you confused with?

How does a school rule or an item that a community finds comfortable to use to cover the knees of their girls become Minhag hamakom?

Whether one has to cover knees legs ankles or feet or from which age this has to be done is a different discussion.
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, May 17 2020, 8:47 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
Could you elaborate on that please? I'm about to leave the house in a long skirt, shoes, and no socks. My ankle may or may not show when I walk.

Why is that a big deal? Is there a problem with men seeing my ankle? Scratching Head


Oooh, you got me there. Yes, if men see your ankles, they will turn into unicorns. Did I say it was, as you claim, "a big deal"? Mine wasn't an emotional statement, but rather, a factual one differentiating the halachic basis for covering the ankle to the halachic basis for covering the leg.

I would add that is based on an interpretation of halacha that is considered mainstream for many (as opposed to covering the leg, which isn't based on actual halacha, but rather is based on an interpretation of Minhag Hamakom)- but this is undoubtedly not an interpretation relied on by all.

So maybe not for your rabbi or for you. That's fine with me. Really, I'm all for it. Everyone does what their rabbi advises, or doesn't, or whatever. I'm not the frummie police.

But don't attribute statements to me that I never made, like "it's a big deal" and "there's a problem with men seeing your ankle". There were no such assertions made in any of my posts. So if you take offense to something that wasn't said, that's on you.

Play nice.
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, May 17 2020, 8:56 am
salt wrote:
As far as I know, covering the ankle (with socks or tights) is not halacha.
The gemara says "shok be-isha erva" - ankle is not mentioned.
In many places and communities, covering the ankle was an added chumra/minhag/whatever.


Interesting. I would be interested in hearing more on this, if you have time/interest in looking into this further.
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, May 17 2020, 8:58 am
crust wrote:
I still don't understand how tights became Minhag hamakom? There is a way that a Minhag hamakom is established.

It is definitely not a Chumra either.

Just like you can't say that a one piece dress is a Chumra.

A dress is a method of covering yourself. Doesn't matter if its a one, two or three piece dress. As long as it covers you it serves its purpose.


As I stated above, tights do not fall into the category of Minhag Hamakom. They absolutely are a chumrah. How are they not a chumrah? I'm confused.
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giselle




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, May 17 2020, 9:02 am
gold21 wrote:
Covering the ankle is halacha.

I’ve never heard this. If anything I know people who wouldn’t wear a short skirt without stockings, but will wear a long skirt because it’s ok if the ankle shows. According to what you’re saying, leggings wouldn’t be ok without socks.
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, May 17 2020, 9:06 am
giselle wrote:
I’ve never heard this. If anything I know people who wouldn’t wear a short skirt without stockings, but will wear a long skirt because it’s ok if the ankle shows. According to what you’re saying, leggings wouldn’t be ok without socks.


I'll assume you didn't pass through the Baos Yaakov system. That's how I was taught. If I'm wrong, I'll take it. All good. But yes, that's how I was taught. And many people follow this interpretation.

Maybe it's not a widely accepted interpretation, and if it's not, I'd be interested to hear alternative explanations. Why not. I enjoy learning new things and hearing new perspectives.

And I do try to wear short socks with my leggings, yeah. I would sooner skip leggings than short socks.

The purpose of my post was to explain the idea of Minhag Hamakom vs halacha, not to become the tznius police of imamother.


Last edited by gold21 on Sun, May 17 2020, 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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crust




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, May 17 2020, 9:08 am
gold21 wrote:
As I stated above, tights do not fall into the category of Minhag Hamakom. They absolutely are a chumrah. How are they not a chumrah? I'm confused.


First let's establish that we are discussing the same thing.

I'm not discussing the halacha of covering whether that's knees ankles legs or feet.

I'm discussing the method of doing so.

Tights is one method of doing so. It's not more choshuv to cover with tights than with any other type of hosiery that covers you.

It's not a Chumra to wear tights instead of socks that cover you in the same areas.

It's not Minhag hamakom either.

That's all I'm saying.
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amother




Khaki
 

Post  Sun, May 17 2020, 9:12 am
amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:
If you wear tights you very well know when it goes above the knee- if the skirts just cover the knee, it’s not the tights that’s the problem. It’s obvious that a skirt just covering will expose the knee. A black/nude knee is still a knee.
It’s a personal and, like you said, a comfort choice . I personally like tights because I don’t want to awkwardly pull up tights during the day. It’s not better or worse to wear knee highs- it’s what works for you.


When I wear tights they never seem to fit well. So I'm always adjusting the upper thighs/butt/private area - which is way more problematic than pulling up knee highs an inch or two.

It's really a personal decision I guess. Tights do NOT work for me.
I used to wear them on shabbos and for weddings etc, haven't for a couple year now either and I just did a couple months ago and it was unbearably uncomfortable.
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, May 17 2020, 9:12 am
crust wrote:
First let's establish that we are discussing the same thing.

I'm not discussing the halacha of covering whether that's knees ankles legs or feet.

I'm discussing the method of doing so.

Tights is one method of doing so. It's not more choshuv to cover with tights than with any other type of hosiery that covers you.

It's not a Chumra to wear tights instead of socks that cover you in the same areas.

It's not Minhag hamakom either.

That's all I'm saying.


I understood that.

The halacha of covering the leg is based on minhag hamakom. If it is the minhag for a makom, it then acts as the halacha for that area, so to speak.

The method with which to cover the leg is no different than the method with which to carry out any halacha. I cover with just a shaitel or a snood, someone else wears a band over her wig or a pair of something or other stuffed under a tichel. Those are chumros.
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paperflowers




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, May 17 2020, 9:12 am
I assumed the op was talking about covering her calves and asking about the least uncomfortable method of doing so. A lot of people I know talk about covering their calves (frequently via the methods of tights/pantyhose) simply as “wearing tights.” Very imprecise terminology, it’s true.
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giselle




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, May 17 2020, 9:32 am
gold21 wrote:
I'll assume you didn't pass through the Baos Yaakov system. That's how I was taught. If I'm wrong, I'll take it. All good. But yes, that's how I was taught. And many people follow this interpretation.

Maybe it's not a widely accepted interpretation, and if it's not, I'd be interested to hear alternative explanations. Why not. I enjoy learning new things and hearing new perspectives.

And I do try to wear short socks with my leggings, yeah. I would sooner skip leggings than short socks.

The purpose of my post was to explain the idea of Minhag Hamakom vs halacha, not to become the tznius police of imamother.

I did go through the Bais Yaakov system. And I was always under the impression that covering legs was more important than ankles.
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giselle




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, May 17 2020, 9:38 am
crust wrote:
Tights is one method of doing so. It's not more choshuv to cover with tights than with any other type of hosiery that covers you.

Many would disagree.
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LovesHashem




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, May 17 2020, 9:59 am
giselle wrote:
Many would disagree.


Can anyone give a source as to why?
I heard that too growing up.
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giselle




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, May 17 2020, 10:02 am
LovesHashem wrote:
Can anyone give a source as to why?
I heard that too growing up.

No, I’m not from that community. I have no idea why.
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behappy2




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, May 17 2020, 10:04 am
crust wrote:
First let's establish that we are discussing the same thing.

I'm not discussing the halacha of covering whether that's knees ankles legs or feet.

I'm discussing the method of doing so.

Tights is one method of doing so. It's not more choshuv to cover with tights than with any other type of hosiery that covers you.

It's not a Chumra to wear tights instead of socks that cover you in the same areas.

It's not Minhag hamakom either.

That's all I'm saying.


What is your source? There are definitely chassidus's that hold that you need to wear tights from a certain age. Is that incorrect?
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, May 17 2020, 10:18 am
giselle wrote:
I did go through the Bais Yaakov system. And I was always under the impression that covering legs was more important than ankles.


I understood that ankle falls into a different category than collarbone, knee, elbow, etc, in that it is allowed to be covered by a non-opaque covering that still allows the shape of it to show (pantyhose), while the others listed above need to be covered differently

And that covering the leg is not required altogether unless it is the minhag hamakom in your area

But, maybe somebody can look it up?

All our tuition dollars, spent with little to show for it.... Very Happy

We need clarity!!! Haha.
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