What is Jewish music anyway????

lilies

Wed, May 20 2020, 7:58 pm

Ora in town wrote:

That was a scale that is used a lot in eastern european music...
It is also called "Gipsy minor", because it is perceived as typical for "gipsy music"...

True.
The result of listening to a Jewish song on that scale, might just bring one closer to H'.
As do many other songs too.

PinkFridge

Wed, May 20 2020, 8:24 pm

avrahamama wrote:

Actually Nakdishach sounds beautiful to the tune of a whole new world .... But for example. There is a tune of adon olam that is really the tune of an old German beer hall song.

I don't know about the German beer hall tune* but I guess it was either "redeemed" or by now noone knows.
But the problem with using contemporary tunes like A Whole New World is that THAT will be what the daveners will be thinking of, or at least some of them.

*I was once at a kiruv event where a rav took out his guitar and started singing Adon Olam. He then put it to other tunes. Because Adon Olam fits to everything, even I'm Leaving On a Jet Plane.

Ema of 5

Wed, May 20 2020, 8:41 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

But so many people won’t, because they never hear the secular songs. Most kids listening to uncle Moishy or country Yossi or any other music that comes from secular music, have no idea what they are actually singing.
Do you know the very popular “mishe mishe mishe nichnas Adar, marbim marbim marbim besimcha”? It’s not a Jewish song. But EVERYONE sings it. Most people probably don’t even know that it’s not a Jewish song.

imasinger

Wed, May 20 2020, 9:15 pm

Ema of 4 wrote:

Yup. Jump down, turn around, pick a bale of cotton...

Uncle Moishy tunes are not original. What he (and his successor) did cleverly was write lyrics.

My kids came home from camp years ago singing some of popular children's folk singer Tom Chapin's children's songs, with no awareness of where they came from.

There is, and probably always was, a flow between Jews of an area, and their neighbors.

Ahava raba mode is similar to some Eastern European folk music.

My working definition of Jewish music is "music that has meaning for Jews as Jews."

Ema of 5

Wed, May 20 2020, 9:21 pm

imasinger wrote:

Exactly my point. For me, Jewish music is music that I can feel.

Mommyg8

Wed, May 20 2020, 9:30 pm

Ora in town wrote:

To me, music with typical rock-pop-style drums (à la Mordechai ben David, etc.) sounds "prost"...
There have even been efforts by some rabbonim to ban that...
However, the "proste" chossid seems not at all disturbed by this influence of hitparade music on their "heimish" music...

???

Which side are you on? I think you just illustrated what some of us have been trying to say?

giselle

Wed, May 20 2020, 11:49 pm

Ema of 4 wrote:

Not only that, it’s considered a racist song and would probably sound really bad to outsiders.

giselle

Wed, May 20 2020, 11:52 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

Poor MBD had no idea that in the future people would easily find this on You Tube. I remember years ago in the early days of the Internet, this was going around. Everyone was shocked Very Happy

avrahamama

Wed, May 20 2020, 11:54 pm

giselle wrote:

Not only that, it’s considered a racist song and would probably sound really bad to outsiders.

It's a slave song of the south. Pick a bale of cotton...

avrahamama

Wed, May 20 2020, 11:56 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

So the first time I heard someone do that I was not into it. But after a while certain tunes are so nice and need to be elevated.

Leaving on a jet plane isn't one of them
lol

avrahamama

Thu, May 21 2020, 12:00 am

giselle wrote:

Poor MBD had no idea that in the future people would easily find this on You Tube. I remember years ago in the early days of the Internet, this was going around. Everyone was shocked Very Happy

Can't unsee that one ...

Mommyg8

Thu, May 21 2020, 12:02 am

giselle wrote:

Poor MBD had no idea that in the future people would easily find this on You Tube. I remember years ago in the early days of the Internet, this was going around. Everyone was shocked Very Happy

I'm surprised it needed the internet. I heard that song on a non Jewish radio station almost 30 years ago... that one and many others. Pretty much all the songs playing from my co workers non Jewish radio station I recognized....

Ema of 5

Thu, May 21 2020, 12:08 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Yup, same here....but I’m probably younger than you cuz I didn’t have coworkers at the time!!

amother

Orange

Thu, May 21 2020, 12:54 am

giselle wrote:

Poor MBD had no idea that in the future people would easily find this on You Tube. I remember years ago in the early days of the Internet, this was going around. Everyone was shocked Very Happy

A song from the Eurovision contest isn't exactly obscure.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, May 21 2020, 5:23 am

Hillery wrote:

I think what Ashkenasi posters mean when they talk about Jewish music being heimish with a Yiddish taam, is to distinguish between the various styles of European/American music. And even more so, to reject African style music that in recent decades has crept into 'Jewish' music.

It's not a judgement on Sefardi or Yemeni music for example, because most of us don't know enough to be able to say what's Jewish or not in those cultures. But from European or American music, we have a feel for what is Jewish music and what sounds prost.

But there are some wonderful sfardi musicians as well AND just like the music that you just KNOW is jewish, same to sfardi music, there is a certain sound, that makes it jewish sfardi music. Its actually quiet beautiful (I think I was a sfardi jew in a former life, in regards to music Wink

)
And sfardi music does not sound prost. Yes, it is a very different sound than a chassidish nigun, but not prost Smile

shabbatiscoming

Thu, May 21 2020, 5:26 am

mocha wrote:

why does music reflect on the singer? its all about the composer of song not even so much the lyrics..
will a song from the movie Aladin become "Jewish" just because some singer decides to do a cover? hell no

I literally can not hear what tune this is supposed to be. From alladin?

Hillery

Thu, May 21 2020, 6:01 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

)
And sfardi music does not sound prost. Yes, it is a very different sound than a chassidish nigun, but not prost Smile

Well exactly. I know that and I'm not saying anything different. Just that when Ashkenasim talk about Jewish music and they talk styles, they're not saying Sefardi music isn't kosher, rather they're not talking about Sefardi music at all.