Israel: Concern of new wave though educational system

blessedflower

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 5:53 am

A little of topic, Israel managed to flatten the curve, but it's going to take so much longer for things to get back 100% to normal. A new wave is always going to be around the corner for the next while. More in Israel then in other countries. So while I'm happy for things to go back to normal a bit, I worry a lot because who knows when it will hit.
I'm kind of ranting in a confused way...

banana123

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 5:53 am

Success10 wrote:

Honestly, it's probably flying around the elementary schools as well, but the younger kids are generally asymptomatic, so no one knows it.

This. It's not that younger kids aren't getting it - schools have been closed because of them, too - it's just that the older you are, the more likely you are to have some sort of symptoms.

In Be'er Sheva they closed two preschools because family members of 2 children attending had been diagnosed with coronavirus, and they don't expect the children themselves to show symptoms, so they just assume the child is infected and asymptomatic.

salt

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 5:55 am

banana123 wrote:

I understood that they're doing more tests now. So, for example, in the case where a parent of a child in a gan was diagnosed, I assume they're closing the gan, and putting the kids into bidud.

Are they testing all the kids and their families in a case like this?

banana123

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 6:01 am

salt wrote:

Yes, the kids go into bidud.

In at least some of these cases they are testing those exposed, but probably not in all of the cases.

blessedflower

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 6:06 am

salt wrote:

I don't know if they are actually doing it but that's what they said they will/wanto do

Elfrida

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 6:12 am

salt wrote:

If the parent tests positive, they test all the family. If their child tests positive, the rest of the class are in bidud, and they all have to do tests. For the ones who are negative it stops there, but they have to repeat the test after five days, and regardless of results are in bidud for fourteen days.

If the children test positive, the family are in bidud, and they all have to do tests at one and five days. According to the latest nohal from Misrad HaBriut. But MD'A sometimes seem to mess up who gets tested when.

Ora in town

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 6:25 am

Success10 wrote:

Are they going to keep only shuttering schools with confirmed cases? Or at some point, are they just going to shut the whole operation down?

I think it is a good sign that they identify new chains of infection quickly.

Relative to the total number of schools in israel, what they find is not much.

Therefore I hope that they will keep schools open, and just follow new chains of infections and try to extinguish them...

amother

Pumpkin

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 6:29 am

banana123 wrote:

1. Yes they could, but for too many students it means having to relearn all the material, because they were doing intense preparation for the test and testing when it is fresh in your mind after such hard work preparing means you'll usually do better than testing at an unknown later date when you're already doing sheirut leumi or next year's bagruyot and have to review everything and rework things that you figured out but then forgot.

The loss is much greater for those who need to do bagruyot than it is for anyone else. Grades 11-12 need to be the last to close, and only if there is no other option.

2-3. In other words you agree with me, no?

Yes, I agree with you

etky

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 6:33 am

Aylat wrote:

I teach בגרויות and the distance learning is not more effective. It would be a disaster to re-close high schools at this stage, which is the last lap before the external exams.

Our school is currently building a combined distance-learning and in-school timetable, whereby only the pupils sitting בגרויות קיץ will be in school.

Ok.
My experience, through my kids, was that in the last month or so of 11th and 12th grades they only show up at school for classes in subjects that they need תגבור in for the bagrut and in any case, it's optional.
Basically, those who are motivated show up and the others don't.
Also, my kids learned entire years' worth of material on-line .
One daughter found an oline lashon course a few days before the bagrut by dint of which she was able to pass with a respectable grade. She had been failing the entire year and had refused to go to a private tutor.
Another daughter did the same with two years' worth of physics. She had 'cut a deal' with the teacher whereby she did not come to classes but rather followed an on-line course and sat for exams with the class. She just found it easier to learn the material from the on-line teacher for some reason.
There are so many on-line resources nowadays, and this was even before Zoom..

DrMom

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 7:15 am

I think they should let kids come in for bagruyot. It'll be a mess if they cancel those after already delaying some of them.

Other than the tests themselves, close the high schools and revert to distance learning.

Let elementary schools proceed, and post inspectors or facilitators in the schools to work with kids and staff to make sure people comply with rules.

Success10

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 7:20 am

DrMom wrote:

Why only elementary schools? So parents can keep working?

DrMom

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 7:23 am

Success10 wrote:

Why only elementary schools? So parents can keep working?

That, and there seems to be less of an outbreak problem there. Plus studies show that smaller children somewhat lack the ability to pass it on to others.

etky

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 7:23 am

42 schools throughout the country closed, hundreds of kids who have tested positive and many thousands in bidud.
I say close the chativot and high schools now. It's less than three weeks to the end of the year anyway.
Then they should rethink how to make it work next year. They're going to have to be creative but I'm sure that over the summer they can come up with some solutions.

Success10

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 7:26 am

etky wrote:

I was kind of hoping they'd learn into the summer, or at least have some sort of school camp for July like they always do for elementary.

Ora in town

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 7:26 am

DrMom wrote:

That, and there seems to be less of an outbreak problem there. Plus studies show that smaller children somewhat lack the ability to pass it on to others.

That's not established... It's erroneous to present this as a fact...
Studies are showing that infected children have just as much virus as adults....
Children might be the worst transmitters, because they often remain without symptoms and therefore unidentified as carriers...

Ora in town

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 7:29 am

etky wrote:

Thanks for this precise information...

I suppose the solution would be to test the whole school population before starting school...

And to remain aware all the time...

Ora in town

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 9:15 am

DrMom wrote:

That, and there seems to be less of an outbreak problem there. Plus studies show that smaller children somewhat lack the ability to pass it on to others.

I think that's wrong.

Some studies show that children are somehow less likely to catch the infection, by about 50%...

But on the other hand: children don't develop symptoms. As long as there is no systematic testing, they will remain unidentified carriers and greatly contribute to virus spread.
As long as the schools stayed closed, children were less likely to be infected because they had nowhere to catch it.

According to studies school closures contributed to reduce the reproduction number by 1... That's very significant... It could make the difference between a reproduction number under 1 or over 1...

DrMom

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 9:21 am

https://www.reuters.com/articl.....2V1K1

http://www.capetalk.co.za/arti.....ation

As with everything about this virus, there are other studies that contradict this.

A good review can be found here:
https://www.nature.com/article.....354-0

Bottom line: We still don't know for sure. (I did not mean to suggest earlier that this was a fully-understood issue.)

Ora in town

Wed, Jun 03 2020, 9:38 am

banana123 wrote:

Do you have a source for that?

There is a study in Geneva that came to the contrary conclusion as an intermediary result:

Nothing allows to conclude that children spread less than adults...