"Masks don't protect you; they protect others"

amother

Amethyst

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 3:36 am

Miri1 wrote:

'
I would take it one further.
Emuna for your own self is a wonderful thing. Err on the hishtadlus side when it comes to others.
The masks are for others.

.

Im not talking about emunah here. I wonder why people say hishtadlus on this, but not on other things. Like, do not get into a car because you have to do hishtadlus not to have car accidents. Do you know that more people get hurt a year by accidents than Coronavirus?

Masks are in no way proven to help. Its a myth, and a good excuse for people to feel like they are DOING something, and CONTROLLING the virus. There is not one country in the world, that got hit with the virus, and it didn't run its course. Israel is not done yet. So are many others.

I still think the frum ppl did best by going on with their lives. The rest will pay the price, it's only a matter of when. Even if they wear a mask all year long, (which is just a 'feel good' thing to do). Why should they admit it's God in charge.?

In my brutal opinion, it does more harm than anything.
But like I said, you can keep on supporting the Chinese with PPE.

LovesHashem

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 3:58 am

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

Of course masks are proven.

Ora in town

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 4:51 am

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

That's not true.

In 2019, the USA had a total of 38'800 trafic deaths.
In the first 5,5 months of 2020, Covid-19 killed around 120'000 people in the USA...

So, in 2020 in the US, Covid19 killed about 6 times more people than trafic accidents.

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

.
Masks are in no way proven to help..

Masks are absolutely proven to help.

There are different types of masks.

It is proven that a surgical mask, when not damp, keeps the wearer from spreading the virus around them.
It is proven that an N95 mask, worn properly, keeps the wearer from inhaling virus around them.

It is proven, that South Korea, Singapore, taiwan, Japan could halt the spread of Covid19 thanks to mask wearing, tracing carriers and quarantining them.

Look at the figures of those countries, as opposed to the USA. And they did not even have to resort to a lockdown.
Taiwan total death: 7
Singapore total deaths: 23
South Korea total deaths: 280, that's 5 per million inhabitants
USa: total deaths: 119 943,
New York City: total deaths: 17'389, that's 2070 per million inhabitants.

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

I still think the frum ppl did best by going on with their lives. The rest will pay the price, it's only a matter of when. Even if they wear a mask all year long, (which is just a 'feel good' thing to do). Why should they admit it's God in charge.?.

G-d sent a magefa? And you think "the more it kills, the merrier?
Let's not protect ourselves.
Let's organise big assemblies to help the virus spread?

Or are you thinking:
Anyway, most fatalities are older people, I am young, my children too, my husband too...It won't hit me hard. Why should I make efforts to protect people over 80? Let them just die!

Is this your hashkafa?
Are those your middes?

amother

Amethyst

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 5:06 am

Ora in town wrote:

Of course God sent it.. Who then??!

And yes, the elderly need to protect themselves but most of us need herd immunity.

A mask and staying locked up will just prolong the virus.

Its summertime now...Off with the masks and let the kids go on with their summer program!

Ora in town

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 5:34 am

naomi2 wrote:

Op I had this question too, how can the mask only protect one way? No one even questions this logic. Then most posters give irrelevant information or bicker amongst themselves about who is a good or bad person depending on how often they wear masks.

I'll explain it.

The main problem with Covid19, the main reason for its huge spread is that there are many asymptomatic carriers and that it is spread through droplet infection, through the air.

Sars 1 was much more deadly than this Sars2. But it could be eradicated in humans after 10'000 cases more or less. Why? Because people became infectious only a few days after onset of the symptoms. So you knew who had it, could isolate those persons, and the virus (which also spread through droplet infection from human to human) went away.

So given the virus spreads through droplet infection.
Given you don't know who is infectuous.
Given infectuous people don't know they are spreading the virus.

The best protection is to keep people from spreading the virus around them, by wearing a mask that will catch the droplets with the virus before they get into the air.

Can you follow me so far?

A surgical mask has this property.

So you wear a mask, for the case where you have the virus, but don't know it, so that you will not spread it around you.

Can you still follow me?

If you are at risk of dying from the virus when you catch it, because you belong to the risk group, you should protect yourself from catching the virus.
If you work in an environment where you know that the virus is present, you should protect yourself from the virus.

In this case you wear a well-fitted N95 mask, that will prevent the virus from entering your respiratory tract, even if it is around you.

Got it?

amother

Mistyrose

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 6:23 am

naomi2 wrote:

It's been my understanding that stopping the relatively large droplets from the person that sneezes or exhales is easier than stopping air that has tiny virus particles diffused in it from getting INTO someone.

Therefore the asymptomatic, unknowingly infected exhaler doesn't need as powerful a mask to protect others from MOST of the virus droplets, but a vulnerable person who wants to avoid 100% of virus particles requires more protective and better sealed masks.

I compromise and wear something, even on the street, to protect me from the coughers and sneezers who are not wearing masks, which at this point is basically everyone around me. It will also stop the worst of my coughs and sneezes if I do get infected.

amother

Orange

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 6:46 am

Ora in town wrote:

Are you talking seriously?

At first, I was a bit angry at the pro-mask faction for mocking the anti-mask-faction's stupidity...
But now I understand them better...

More serious I could not be.

And very nice of you to call me stupid. My doctor has advised me that the masks are unnecessary for most people in most situations. Thousands of other medical professionals agree with him. Fauci himself said masks were unnecessary in the beginning. Then he changed his mind. What changed? Science or politics? My money is on the latter.

SixOfWands

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 6:49 am

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

There were projections that, without interventions, covid would have killed 40 million people this year. That's .5% of the entire world population.

Is that what you're advocating? Because that's what will get you herd immunity.

SixOfWands

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 6:53 am

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

Early on, when masks were in short supply, there was no mask recommendation.

But please refer me to the articles by these 1000s of medical doctors who claim that masks are not necessary when social distancing is not possible.

However, I wholeheartedly agree with you that its politics. Trump is anti-mask. He's also anti-science.

Miri1

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 7:28 am

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

This is not hishtadlus. Its something Dr. Fauci decided at first doesn't help, but then used it to cover up on the drama he said would happen.

Please don't compare it to driving or crossing. The virus is not something you can control. In fact I tried exposing myself to get it and gain immunity, but did not get it. My neighbor wore a mask throughout, and got it anyway. I know many others like this.

I might wear it now out of respect for the crazy world, but I don't buy it.

The only thing we are doing is supporting the Chinese by buying millions of their masks. And walking around like idiots, on and off, adjusting it. And when we want to finally breathe fresh air, it hangs on our chin. Applause

Woah there.
Let's take that apart.
If you don't want to support China, make your own mask.
In Israel they have found that masks reduce infection. Don't bother with Fauci if you've had enough of him but don't dump an overall good idea out of spite.
And how noble that you exposed yourself for the sake of your own immunity, but I hope you didn't take the liberty of exposing others while you were at it.
And no one said that a mask is protecting YOU, they said it's about the others. So your neighbor did what was right and unfortunately caught it anyway, probably from others who deemed it unimportant to wear a mask.

Ora in town

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 7:39 am

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

It definitely was a mistake, in Europe and in the USA, to discourage mask-wearing in February/March.

They did it because they did not have enough protective equipment for hospitals.

So there were several mistakes made by many countries made:
1) They had not stocked up sufficiently on PPE in the framework of crisis prevention.
2) They did not think of the possibility that people could make improvised masks themselves.

A host of east Asians countries (South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore) could contain the virus thanks to masks, tracking carriers and quarantining them.

In South Korea, the pandemic caused no more than 280 fatalities, that is 5 per million inhabitants-And they did not need a stay-at-home order...

In New york city, 2070 in one million inhabitants died from Covid... over 2 promille of the population! What a tragedy!

southernbubby

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 7:58 am

SixOfWands wrote:

I read where one top virologist said that nothing will get us to herd immunity and he doesn't think that vaccines will stop the spread of the virus.
We will always play cat and mouse with the virus for years but masks can reduce the spread and give some protection.

aliavi

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 8:46 am

Ora in town wrote:

This. I couldn’t agree more. Medical professionals all want and wear masks for good reason. The same filtering works both ways! If it can’t get in then it can’t get out so both parties are protected. I’m tired of wearing the masks but I don’t see the sense in risking anything even the common cold.

#BestBubby

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 9:01 am

ra_mom wrote:

If you're wearing a mask and the person speaking to you is a covid carrier and is not wearing a mask, transmission possibility is 70%.

If you are not wearing a mask, and the person speaking to you is wearing a mask, and is a covid carrier, the transmission possibility is 5%.

If both of you are wearing masks, and the person speaking to you is a covid carrier, transmission possibility a 1.5%.

The main infection route is having close face to face conversation, or singing/praying together in enclosed space.

There is no need to wear a mask while walking outside - the risk of infecting someone just by passing by is virtually zero.

When people walk around masked outside, it encourages government to prolong the lockdown, which govt will keep as long as they can get away with it.

#BestBubby

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 9:05 am

aliavi wrote:

Aliavi, are you committing to wearing masks FOREVER?

Because you might transmit cold, or flu or some other virus. Covid-19 is not the ONLY virus out there.