Coronavirus is NOT over!!!

amother

Red

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 3:31 pm

gamanit wrote:

If you already have antibodies and you wear a mask that's an easy way to lose your antibodies and get sick all over again. The immune system prioritizes which antibodies to hang onto based on exposures. If you actively prevent re-exposure you're telling your body not to bother hanging onto the antibodies. If elderly people aren't comfortable shopping in-store while wearing a mask themselves they can call in their order by phone. As an aside, from what I'm seeing, less elderly people are wearing masks than young people.

Your assumption of how antibodies work is inaccurate. No, the immune system does not prioritize which antibodies to hang onto based on exposure. Where did you even get this stuff from? It really depends on the virus and the type of immunity. There are viruses for which antibodies are actually dangerous because your body thinks it is protected, but the virus oversmarts the antibodies, and repeat infections are more dangerous than initial infections for this vary reason (I.e. Dengue fever).

gamanit

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 3:33 pm

amother [ Red ] wrote:

There are many many sources for this. This is the first one off google but if I have time I can find more for you. There are rare exceptions but this is "textbook"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK27158/

amother

Red

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 4:06 pm

gamanit wrote:

Not really. Just because your T cells recognize infection and prevent reinfection does not mean that you suddenly have "boosted" your t cells and antibody response. That's simply not true. At a certain point, you've reached your "limit" so to say and you can't just become "more" immune.

In regard to malaria (which is a parasite, not a virus) substantial protection/immunity happens after around 10 years of age because a child in Africa is reinfected with malaria every few hours via reinfection not "boosting". So it takes 100s of infections to achieve protection - not 100s of exposures.

gamanit

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 4:16 pm

amother [ Red ] wrote:

First of all why are you imamother? I don't enjoy arguing with a nameless faceless person. Second of all it's true that there's an upper limit. If there'd be a way to guarantee that all people who already have antibodies have had enough exposures I'd possibly agree with you. Parasites and viruses both trigger an immune response but beyond that I don't believe there are many similarities other than the fact that both can kill you. I don't know where it comes into play with this discussion.

Regarding public policy it's easier to require masks across the board when hospitals are at risk of being beyond capacity without exception. I was merely arguing with the point that people who already have antibodies are risking others by wearing a mask plus tangentially added why it's not to their benefit to wear one. If they were only exposed the time that got them sick they may or may not stay immune.

amother

Red

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 4:27 pm

gamanit wrote:

I am amother because it is not allowed to post as both amother and your sn in one thread and I already posted as amother here. Secondly, I used the parasite example since it is easy to visualize but I can use another virus as an example.

I don't understand what the issue with masks is, besides it being something new culturally. Look at Uruguay - look at Japan. Is there something wrong with those countries? But I didn't want to address that here, I just wanted to point out the concept of "reboosting immunity" is not always scientifically correct and when you're dealing with a virus that could really harm certain portions of this population encouraging people to throw out the masks is a bad idea, even if unmasked immune individuals are not dangerous because:

1. Some non immune people will look it as example and not comply
2. It will encourage individuals to intentionally expose themselves, most likely those from lower economic backgrounds which are also more likely to suffer complications

BTW I live in a community where most poeple do not wear masks, etc and I don't really care what other people do. Just want to clarify some misconceptions such as those in regard to immunity, antibodies, etc.

sky

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 4:31 pm

gamanit wrote:

You have choices to go to weddings or parties or even clothing shopping. Spend time outside with neighbors. Send kids to camp. Get your supposed antibodies otherwise but not at the expense of others food.

But grocery shopping - it’s not a choice. It is so selfish to go grocery shopping without a mask.
These women struggled with making orders, food wasn’t sent, missed order deadlines, kids forgot to go, they didn’t want to bother them.

It breaks my heart that we can’t even let them buy food after what they’ve been through and just say too bad. (After Spending weeks isolated, making the Seder alone)

Not wearing masks also makes other embarrassed to wear masks. I believe in following the law. My rav is very vocal that we must listen to the government. At this point I feel like an idiot in every store for wearing a mask. Imagine if one person doesn’t wear a mask for this reason and there is a tragedy. Who is accountable?

Last edited by sky on Mon, Jul 27 2020, 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

gamanit

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 4:35 pm

amother [ Red ] wrote:

I don't see anything about that in the rules but regardless you went amother to post "someone who needa to go to a kimpeturin heim should exercise an extreme abundsnce of caution and not go if they test positive even if they are confident it is a false positive". Was that really appropriate use of amother? You clarified absolutely zilch being as you muddled your own argument.

nchr

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 12:01 am

Repeated exposure does not necessarily result in better immunity, and better immunity is not necessarily needed ATM. I think we need to compare COVID19 to other coronavirus types and specifically SARS, which generally confers immunity for at least one year.

The benefits of wearing a mask are pretty clear and I think most people in my community don't wear them because they just don't understand why they are necessary.

I think stores in our communities should do an elderly hour in the morning or get a group together to help the elderly.

I also think most people I know would wear masks if they knew elderly were not shopping or getting groceries because of the lack of masks.

Unfortunately we messed up in regard to masks at the beginning of the outbreak, but the science is pretty clear on it now. If we'd use masks reasonably we'd most likely have never needed to lock down.

amother

Red

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 10:09 am

STMommy wrote:

And let's see how well it goes when the kids at my work are supposed to wear masks all day long in my poorly-tempertaure-controlled building. Or are the powers that be going to look around and see that no frum Jews are still masked anyway, so might as well reopen school with minimal precautions?
I'm so afraid.

My children's Chassidish school in KJ was opened with pretty reasonable precautions. Kids were in their assigned classroom all day, they eventually had partitions in the classroom, lunch was eaten at the children's desks, and my son had masks on the bus. I would have liked to seen more like masks at least in the hallway and staggered arrival but they were quite careful BH. The NYS Health Dept came to the school and said it met reasonable safety standards.

STMommy

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 10:11 am

amother [ Red ] wrote:

Was this very recently or more towards the end of last school year in May or June?

chanatron1000

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 10:11 am

STMommy wrote:

It doesn't sound like masks are the actual problem here.

gamanit

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 10:13 am

chanatron1000 wrote:

You can't do something that you know will cause everyone to be exposed to a virus just to give yourself repeat exposure. If that's your concern, wear masks, but open a kissing booth for post-COVID people.

You know that you're not exposing anyone else to the virus being as you're already immune. I do agree that people should wear masks in supermarkets because it's the best public health policy. Ideally, there should be places for people to deliberately re-expose themselves while still immune. Allowing recovered covid patients to volunteer in covid wards would make sense.

amother

Beige

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 10:36 am

gamanit wrote:

Do we know this for sure? Will the real test be winter, to see if immunity's worn off chas v'shalom?

gamanit

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 10:57 am

southernbubby wrote:

My understanding of repeated exposure was that grocery workers who spent all day repeatedly being exposed meant that the viral load that they got was sometimes fatal. It doesn't sound like repeated exposure led to greater immunity.

1) this was prior developing antibodies. 2) issue was mainly high level of exposure without any breaks. I actually do know people who had such jobs though that never developed any symptoms and tested very high levels of antibodies because none of the exposures were enough to get them sick but it was enough to develop antibodies.