Coronavirus is NOT over!!!

STMommy

Thu, Jul 23 2020, 9:44 pm

amother [ Taupe ] wrote:

It's definitely not over in Israel. I have friends and relatives in RBS who are in bidud because teachers in different schools tested positive. That's for sure going to happen in the US if schools reopen.

Yes. My relatives in Israel had to go into bidud, people who were able to go back to work/school are now back home full-time and anyone who thinks that isn't potentially traumatizing is wrong.
Oh, also, the second wave in Israel is because school reopened. Many articles discuss this. Here's one example: https://www-wsj-com.cdn.amppro.....60001

STMommy

Thu, Jul 23 2020, 9:48 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

Op, isn't it a documentable fact that the infection rate in certain frum areas is below 1%? Meaning of the people taking tests, less than 1% are coming back positive. I know Lakewood is acting like it's all over with. In fairness, if they were c'vs wrong, they would be experiencing terrible outbreaks now. But they aren't. What other conclusion do you draw other than to say that in Lakewood it's basically over, at least for now?

It's wonderful that the infection rate in Lakewood has lowered. But there is overwhelming evidence from the US that when things reopen en masse (I.e., all children and educators returning to work/school) there is a surge in cases.

southernbubby

Thu, Jul 23 2020, 9:48 pm

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

Good point, vulnerable populations children and adults alike can have some compensation and arrangements in place for us/them. For the majority the schools should open. All the health officials are unanimous on that for once.

That's for NY. I am not sure that hotspots have teachers who are agreeing to go back in just a few weeks. The vaccine will probably be a game changer.

STMommy

Thu, Jul 23 2020, 9:50 pm

bobeli wrote:

In my humble opinion where it spreads like in ny back in march, Florida now, etc . It lasts 8 weeks and then the cases come down.
If it’s not over in places that had it hard how do you explain that ny has almost no cases and everything is open? Or no uptick in cases after the thousands of people that demonstrated when everything was still closed?
Where are the cases in Europe? How is Italy or Sweden doing?
Many places that went through it opened schools and there are not many cases.
Why should our schools be closed? Or anything else?

People are still getting sick in NY. On July 22nd there were 811 new cases. Every sick person can potentially suffer long term side effects or death.

STMommy

Thu, Jul 23 2020, 9:52 pm

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

If thats indeed the case then schools can open safely with protocols in place; older teachers may choose not to return and to take retirement.

That attitude is a little too cavalier about people's parnassa. Not everyone can afford to retire.

STMommy

Thu, Jul 23 2020, 9:55 pm

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

But the educators don't necessarily agree.

https://www.nydailynews.com/op......html

keym

Thu, Jul 23 2020, 9:58 pm

STMommy wrote:

That attitude is a little too cavalier about people's parnassa. Noteveryone can afford to retire.

And not everyone can afford to keep their kids home, learning remotely.
Not to mention all the hundreds of jobs that are dependant on schools opening because their job is irrelevant remotely. (Bus drivers, cleaning, coaches, librarians).
And the thousands of special ed kids suffering tremendously from lack of or insufficient services.

It's a huge balancing act. Those pushing to open the schools are not heartless.

STMommy

Thu, Jul 23 2020, 10:03 pm

keym wrote:

I don't disagree. I think it's a horrible situation all around. But in March 2020, schools had to close because there was a pandemic. And my main point is, there still is one. I want the decision makers to weigh all the factors. My concern is with some (many?) frum people no longer wearing masks or distancing, it looks like we don't care about schools reopening because the pandemic is over anyway.

SixOfWands

Thu, Jul 23 2020, 10:11 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Older teachers or teachers who have health issues may not have to retire forever but should probably wait awhile before going back to work. They can teach online because there will still be some students who have to sit out the next semester until they are certain that the virus is under control.

While older people, and people with certain pre existing conditions, are at highest risk, that does not mean that others are not at risk.

I was interested to see that Barron Trump’s school is probably. It opening for live classes as it’s too dangerous. Will Donny pull him out and put him in a public school class with 30 students and no mask mandate? Think what a message that would send, that he’s not worried about his son’s health, or his own, under those conditions.

amother

Coral

Thu, Jul 23 2020, 10:50 pm

STMommy wrote:

KJ reopened completely a while ago and there hasn’t been corona hospitalizations there for months.

tigerwife

Thu, Jul 23 2020, 10:56 pm

STMommy wrote:

That attitude is a little too cavalier about people's parnassa. Not everyone can afford to retire.

Aren’t you anxious about not working? Are you getting a decent unemployment? I lost months of income when my kids were home.

Is it over? That is very area-specific. I was sick the other week. Went to the doctor to test for COVID19 and he told me highly unlikely at this point but he’ll take a nasal swab. I was surprised they let me in the building at all- I thought they’d swab from my car. Lo and behold it was negative. If doctors aren’t seeing active cases in my neighborhood, then I am comfortable with schools opening.

I do think state-to-state traveling is an issue but it sounds like most Americans just can’t be inconvenienced in that way. People travel out of state daily for work.

southernbubby

Thu, Jul 23 2020, 11:17 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Everyone is at risk but until we have a vaccine and know that it works, there will be a level of risk which has to be weighed against preventing any semblance of normalcy. The vaccine itself may come with risks.
Some types of higher education can't be done remotely.
I would hope that the schools abandon the overcrowded classroom idea and teach in small pods. No child should ride the subway. I thought that NYC had plenty of school busses.
Families like the Trumps can afford private teachers and this privilege sets them apart from kids that age who are taking public transportation to school which needs to change.

bobeli

Thu, Jul 23 2020, 11:29 pm

STMommy wrote:

People are still getting sick in NY. On July 22nd there were 811 new cases. Every sick person can potentially suffer long term side effects or death.

811 cases in a 20 million state is very low.
Do you know how many people are suffering from other things because there is no school, no jobs, etc? Many more than 800 a day in nys.
To make this decisions you have to take in to account all the factors, not only corona factors.
In March ( I think in February)it was a necessary thing to close but now? Why? Because maybe it will be a second wave? For a maybe you should not close schools, work, etc.
Did everyone forget that in the middle of the lockdown there was a “protest “ in Brooklyn with more than 5k people? Where are the cases from that? Not in ny, look at the statistics and the curve.
Any school is safer than that protest

etky

Fri, Jul 24 2020, 1:16 am

amother [ Cerise ] wrote:

Yet Israel is supposedly considering allowing in seminary and Yeshiva students. A country that supposedly considers itself on the forefront of dealing with the virus is acting as if it's over. I think that's the message many people see from the authorities.
I'm not saying it's right, it's just that if the experts behave like it's over, the people who want to believe it's over will definitely follow their lead.

You obviously don't live here and it doesn't sound like you follow Israeli media or know anything about what is going on in Israel now.
The news item about the decision to authorize the entry of overseas yeshiva/seminary students (with strict quarantine measures btw) was a teeny tiny blip that I caught only because I'm attuned to the issue from imamother.
Most people here don't know/don't care/ won't think about for more than a second or two.
It certainly won't influence how people think about the crisis or cause them to think the crisis is over.
We're too busy keeping up with the status of the restrictions du jour which have devolved into a game of ping-pong between the government and the Knesset Corona committee.
And tearing our hair out b/c there is no coherent policy as many important aspects of our lives are on hold, cases surge daily, intensive care units are getting filled up and what seems like half the country is in bidud (isolation).
Oh, and amidst the pandemic and the governmental and economic chaos, elections are in the air again. There's talk about November.

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Jul 24 2020, 5:39 am

amother [ Cerise ] wrote:

Does Israel know how many industries went down the drain in the USA?
Allowing people in (in the tens of thousands) whatever the reason is makes it seem like it's not that bad.

Not at all. We in israel know just how bad it is.
This is such a tiny thing on israel's radar.
To you its big because its about people ftom chu"l. But ON israel its such a small thing.
But we know its not over, not even close.

#Happymom

Fri, Jul 24 2020, 6:26 am

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

KJ reopened completely a while ago and there hasn’t been corona hospitalizations there for months.

Well, look what happened here in Israel, we reopened completely, slowly and carefully everything opened up.

The first few weeks went great, the numbers were all fine and we all thought that our country was so brilliant from finishing with corona.

Little did we know that several weeks in to our return to normalacy, people starting catching it, and it spread, and spread and now our hospitals are overwhelmed and most of my neighbourhood is in biddud!!! Day camps and ganim just closed because most kids weremt coming and were anyhow in biddid.

It did take a few weeks. (More like months)

So dont count your chickens til they've hatched.

Oh, and there is no such thing as herd immunity, even in the badly hit communities. Immunity doesnt last and people can get it more than once.

amother

Teal

Fri, Jul 24 2020, 7:04 am

From what I heard in Israel the issue was schools and other places opening up without adhering to proper protocols- is this correct? In the US they are talking about opening schools with protocols: SD capsules lucite around teachers masks etc
Even when polio was prevalent R”L before vaccine there was no such thing as lockdown.

amother

Ivory

Fri, Jul 24 2020, 7:10 am

#Happymom wrote:

Oh, and there is no such thing as herd immunity, even in the badly hit communities. Immunity doesnt last and people can get it more than once.

You are saying this like it's fact. It's not. There aren't enough studies done to know if this is true or not.
Fact is that there are very few very rare cases of reinfection.