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-> Working Women
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amother
Chartreuse
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 Wed, Dec 02 2020, 10:33 pm
I just have to mention this story that shows the disparity among divorced women.
As I said in my above post, I have my kids full time and don’t get any child support.
I was on a date with a guy and he told me his ex wife doesn’t work and he fully pays for everything. He pays the entire tuition bills, utilities, groceries etc. while his ex sits at home. The reason for this was because she was a SAHM during their marriage and he was responsible to continue with this arrangement. He said eventually she’d have to get a job but for now she lived in style and didn’t need an income.
And here I am. The complete opposite.
So divorced women can do very well. Between child support, alimony, tuition, they may even do better financially divorced than married.
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amother
Dodgerblue
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Wed, Dec 02 2020, 10:39 pm
| amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote: | I just have to mention this story that shows the disparity among divorced women.
As I said in my above post, I have my kids full time and don’t get any child support.
I was on a date with a guy and he told me his ex wife doesn’t work and he fully pays for everything. He pays the entire tuition bills, utilities, groceries etc. while his ex sits at home. The reason for this was because she was a SAHM during their marriage and he was responsible to continue with this arrangement. He said eventually she’d have to get a job but for now she lived in style and didn’t need an income.
And here I am. The complete opposite.
So divorced women can do very well. Between child support, alimony, tuition, they may even do better financially divorced than married. |
I would check with the xw if this is true. I don't get a cent from xh and he managed to convince his new wife that he pays for everything except for what I don't want to take due to disfunction..
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bernadette
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Wed, Dec 02 2020, 11:02 pm
| amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote: | | I would check with the xw if this is true. I don't get a cent from xh and he managed to convince his new wife that he pays for everything except for what I don't want to take due to disfunction.. |
My father told his new wife that he paid 20k for my wedding. He gave 1k.
Op, my mother built herself as a bookkeeper. When they got divorced, she put in more hours. We moved into my bobbe and zeidy’s house for a few years then we got our own place. Bh, we had all the necessities, no luxuries. We were married off with the help of some very generous people.
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amother
Jade
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Thu, Dec 03 2020, 12:30 am
| amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote: | Xh doesn't contribute even one cent. Chassidish here and many don't go to seminary. My daughters all knew from a young age that they will not be going to seminary because xh was very stingy. That ended up giving them an extra year to earn money.
My daughters all worked and piled up enough money to pay for their weddings. Two of them took a degree. They used their own money and worked while taking the degree. Others bH earned nicely on other jobs that don't require a degree. Totally yad Hashem. I repeat, totally yad Hashem. Some we're lucky and their in-laws paid for their wedding bH. |
You told your kids they wouldn't be going to seminary because their father was stingy?
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amother
Aqua
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Thu, Dec 03 2020, 2:08 am
| amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote: | | I would check with the xw if this is true. I don't get a cent from xh and he managed to convince his new wife that he pays for everything except for what I don't want to take due to disfunction.. |
THIS.
It's rare to find a divorced couple who agree on the facts of their financial arrangements.
Even if a man pays a decentamount towards child support on a steady basis, for some reason many of them develop selective amnesia and forget how much raising kids actually cost. They think they're supporting their ex and kids in style but the reality is that the ex wife is still struggling to cover the bills.
I know exactly one divorcee who doesn't work because she lives with her parents. The rest of us are working ourselves to the bone and still need financial support from the government, family, community, or all three.
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amother
Aqua
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Thu, Dec 03 2020, 2:10 am
| amother [ Pearl ] wrote: | Why are people bringing up alimony?? Most women don’t get alimony.
If a father doesn’t pay court ordered child support there are severe consequences. His drivers license can be suspended, passport taken away, if he files taxes and is supposed to get a refund it goes straight to child support ...plus more. |
My ex made sure to be "unemployed" at the time of our divorce. The judge ordered the bare minimum. That's $100 a month for 5 kids. It arrives like clockwork.
Yay me?
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amother
Seafoam
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Thu, Dec 03 2020, 3:04 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | What about with seminaries, college/higher degrees, chasunas? What if someone has a spouse that does not contribute and especially if they are from yeshivash circles where I find the expectations are very specific and narrow. how does anyone manage? I am honestly feeling major despair over this. |
My parents divorced when I was young, my father did not pay child support or help in any way.
My mother raised us that we have to work to afford things. I started babysitting when I was 11. I worked every summer from the age of 13.
For seminary, my mother asked for a reduction and we got state and federal financial aid because I went through a college. And I had all the money I had saved up from working.
For college I got whatever aid I could and I worked 2 jobs and went to school at night and took loans. During winter and summer breaks I would get a 3rd part time job. Paid back all the loans within 5 years of graduation. My mother did not pay for so much as a book or a pen when I was in college.
Saved up all my money from working when I was single and paid for my own wedding.
That's just how I was raised. My mother was able to put food on the table and a roof over our heads and we were clothed, but anything else we paid for ourselves.
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amother
Turquoise
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Thu, Dec 03 2020, 6:03 am
| amother [ Jade ] wrote: | | You told your kids they wouldn't be going to seminary because their father was stingy? |
Sounds like it. OP, in the long run your children will respect you more if you don’t badmouth their father to them. It’s hard to do.
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amother
Chartreuse
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Thu, Dec 03 2020, 7:32 am
| amother [ Pearl ] wrote: | Why are people bringing up alimony?? Most women don’t get alimony.
If a father doesn’t pay court ordered child support there are severe consequences. His drivers license can be suspended, passport taken away, if he files taxes and is supposed to get a refund it goes straight to child support ...plus more. |
I don’t get a dime in child support. My kids are full time with me. It’s easy to game the system because for all their rules, they mostly go unenforced. Men leave the country. Men work off the books. Men who don’t work at all and stay unemployed while their families support them. There are ways for a man to evade the system if he wants to.
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amother
Chartreuse
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Thu, Dec 03 2020, 7:35 am
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But I have a circle of divorced friends. And many are doing well financially. Most women do get child support. I have one friend whose ex pays the entire tuition bill. And she gets generous child support on top of that. I’m in the minority. Some of my divorced friends are better off divorced financially than when they were married. You wouldn’t believe what some of them get a month ($750 per child plus half or more of the tuition). That’s just one example.
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amother
OP
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Thu, Dec 03 2020, 9:19 am
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I thought in the case of a husband who is not working they impute income, what his earning power is and other factors so that fathers can't just get away with not being employed conveniently at the time of divorce and an insignificant amount of support ordered because of it???
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amother
Aqua
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Thu, Dec 03 2020, 9:54 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | I thought in the case of a husband who is not working they impute income, what his earning power is and other factors so that fathers can't just get away with not being employed conveniently at the time of divorce and an insignificant amount of support ordered because of it??? |
It depends on how much of a mentsch the man is, how badly you want a get, and how much money you have for lawyers and forensic accountants to fight it out in court.
I knew ex would be in and out of a job forever, as he was in the decade we were married, so it made no sense to fight for an amount of money I would be unlikely to see.
Every case is unique.
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kollel wife
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Thu, Dec 03 2020, 9:59 am
to the OP:
Can you tell us something of your age, physical health and the ages of your children currently.
It might help us to advise you, as to career, etc. If your children are very young, you might be best off doing child care at home until they reach school age.
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amother
Pearl
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Thu, Dec 03 2020, 10:12 am
There’s no one set of rules for everyone.
Each situation, family make up, is so different.
Bottom line, divorce is hard. It’s a hard thing to have to go through. It’s a hard life to live after, though some people find it easier to live life after the divorce than how they were living beforehand.
No one will be able to predict how your life will be if you choose to divorce especially since no one knows you and your circumstances. Assume that there will be pros and cons. Financial strain will probably be an issue but your emotional well being is even more important to consider.
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amother
Pumpkin
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Thu, Dec 03 2020, 10:16 am
| amother [ Aqua ] wrote: | It depends on how much of a mentsch the man is, how badly you want a get, and how much money you have for lawyers and forensic accountants to fight it out in court.
I knew ex would be in and out of a job forever, as he was in the decade we were married, so it made no sense to fight for an amount of money I would be unlikely to see.
Every case is unique. |
I have an underemployed, lazy ex with useless college degrees (but he could still have been getting proper jobs, raises, etc. with his skills).
He gets child support from me because, even though we have 50/50 custody, I made more than 30K more than him when we divorced a decade ago. I also pay most of medical/childcare (which thankfully the latter is moot now).
He got remarried, the new wife wants to live like their doctor friends (but she's not a doctor either), and now he's suing me for 5-6x child support and to pay nearly all medical, allow him to claim the kids on taxes every year and not allow me at all, etc.
I worked the last decade in my career, hardly shooting up the corporate ladder--going at a snail's pace as a single mom who keeps shabbos.
He played around going part time, working on a masters degree that didn't or wouldn't do anything for his earning potential, bouncing from entry level job to entry level job eventually and making no more annually than he did 10 years ago.
But I make 30% more than I made ten years ago--but that basically just kept up with cost of living(barely). Remember, I pay most of medical, and medical expenses, premiums, out of pocket have gone up a lot in 10 years.
So, he got to take my hard earned little bit of money when we divorced, and 10 years later, gets to drag me to court so he and his new wife can take my hard earned money since neither one of them ever made actual careers or got steady jobs. They live way outside their means, rack of CC bills, etc. While I went through a second divorce, tons of legal bills with an unreasonable x2, and I just dug out from one of those mountains....was looking forward to getting some necessary repairs done at my house..but guess that won't happen. I never go on vacation, while they hop all over. I own 3 pieces of real furniture (vs. pressboard stuff) that I did not buy/get second hand...while his new wife would "accidentally" send me receipts of all the new furniture they buy. They are members of 2 shuls. I struggle to pay dues to the one cheaper shul.
But, they do work a bit under the table or bartering services, get a lot of help from his parents (ie. vacations, etc), but it's not worth paying an expert or 2 to try to show what's what.
The system just allows jerks like this, who preach that they follow halachah, to not follow halachah.
There's a special place somewhere for people like my ex and his wife.
So, the answer is divorced women get by 1. changing their own expectations 2. davening a lot and 3. help from Hashem, because it's just not possible. Either it's an ex who doesn't support getting away with it, or and ex milking his ex wife getting away with it.
I'm also a geyores, and have no other help. No one in my community would care. They could actually be shamed for their behavior and it would stop them, but no one will call them out on it.
But after 120, they will have to face their Maker.
I lived on <$20/month for food for about 6 months in college. I sucked it up. It was scary at first, but eventually I got into a routine and I wasn't miserable really at all (but I did feel relief when that tight period was over).
I'll get buy. My kids won't get any more sleep away camp. There won't be seminary/zal. There won't be college tuition, and my daugther's father can figure out the wedding if it needs to be one to keep up with the Cohens. And if he gets the increase he wants, the little bit of money I have for day school tuition will disappear and there won't be that either unless they want to just accept I don't pay.
I can't move somewhere cheaper--I don't live somewhere insanely expensive anyways.
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amother
Taupe
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Thu, Dec 03 2020, 10:22 am
| amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote: | I have an underemployed, lazy ex with useless college degrees (but he could still have been getting proper jobs, raises, etc. with his skills).
He gets child support from me because, even though we have 50/50 custody, I made more than 30K more than him when we divorced a decade ago. I also pay most of medical/childcare (which thankfully the latter is moot now).
He got remarried, the new wife wants to live like their doctor friends (but she's not a doctor either), and now he's suing me for 5-6x child support and to pay nearly all medical, allow him to claim the kids on taxes every year and not allow me at all, etc.
I worked the last decade in my career, hardly shooting up the corporate ladder--going at a snail's pace as a single mom who keeps shabbos.
He played around going part time, working on a masters degree that didn't or wouldn't do anything for his earning potential, bouncing from entry level job to entry level job eventually and making no more annually than he did 10 years ago.
But I make 30% more than I made ten years ago--but that basically just kept up with cost of living(barely). Remember, I pay most of medical, and medical expenses, premiums, out of pocket have gone up a lot in 10 years.
So, he got to take my hard earned little bit of money when we divorced, and 10 years later, gets to drag me to court so he and his new wife can take my hard earned money since neither one of them ever made actual careers or got steady jobs. They live way outside their means, rack of CC bills, etc. While I went through a second divorce, tons of legal bills with an unreasonable x2, and I just dug out from one of those mountains....was looking forward to getting some necessary repairs done at my house..but guess that won't happen. I never go on vacation, while they hop all over. I own 3 pieces of real furniture (vs. pressboard stuff) that I did not buy/get second hand...while his new wife would "accidentally" send me receipts of all the new furniture they buy. They are members of 2 shuls. I struggle to pay dues to the one cheaper shul.
But, they do work a bit under the table or bartering services, get a lot of help from his parents (ie. vacations, etc), but it's not worth paying an expert or 2 to try to show what's what.
The system just allows jerks like this, who preach that they follow halachah, to not follow halachah.
There's a special place somewhere for people like my ex and his wife.
So, the answer is divorced women get by 1. changing their own expectations 2. davening a lot and 3. help from Hashem, because it's just not possible. Either it's an ex who doesn't support getting away with it, or and ex milking his ex wife getting away with it.
I'm also a geyores, and have no other help. No one in my community would care. They could actually be shamed for their behavior and it would stop them, but no one will call them out on it.
But after 120, they will have to face their Maker.
I lived on <$20/month for food for about 6 months in college. I sucked it up. It was scary at first, but eventually I got into a routine and I wasn't miserable really at all (but I did feel relief when that tight period was over).
I'll get buy. My kids won't get any more sleep away camp. There won't be seminary/zal. There won't be college tuition, and my daugther's father can figure out the wedding if it needs to be one to keep up with the Cohens. And if he gets the increase he wants, the little bit of money I have for day school tuition will disappear and there won't be that either unless they want to just accept I don't pay.
I can't move somewhere cheaper--I don't live somewhere insanely expensive anyways. |
Can you fight for 50/50 so that you don’t have to pay any child support? Many men do that.
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amother
Pumpkin
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Thu, Dec 03 2020, 11:02 am
| amother [ Taupe ] wrote: | | Can you fight for 50/50 so that you don’t have to pay any child support? Many men do that. |
I have 50/50. but because I made >30k more than x when we divorced, NYS case law is he gets child support.
50/50 custody does not get the higher earning parent out of child support if the lower earning parent fights for it. The law strictly speaking, supports the same calc for child support as if the lower earning parent is primary custodial parent.
I was lucky the judge used the parts of the laws that allow him to make his own judgments to calculated it differently.
But all bets are off. New magistrate. x can walk off with more money at the end of the month by a lot even before taking into his wife's earnings than I have. I will struggle to do anything but keep the roof over the head and food in the kids' stomachs. The kids will get lots of great toys and fun stuff over there, and I won't be giving them that or able to afford extra curriculars, etc. Whatever. It's a really hopeless situation. And really all up to Hashem.
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amother
Dodgerblue
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Thu, Dec 03 2020, 12:04 pm
| amother [ Jade ] wrote: | | You told your kids they wouldn't be going to seminary because their father was stingy? |
Their father had told them before the divorce and seminary is not a must in our circles.
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amother
Dodgerblue
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Thu, Dec 03 2020, 12:23 pm
| amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote: | I have 50/50. but because I made >30k more than x when we divorced, NYS case law is he gets child support.
50/50 custody does not get the higher earning parent out of child support if the lower earning parent fights for it. The law strictly speaking, supports the same calc for child support as if the lower earning parent is primary custodial parent.
I was lucky the judge used the parts of the laws that allow him to make his own judgments to calculated it differently.
But all bets are off. New magistrate. x can walk off with more money at the end of the month by a lot even before taking into his wife's earnings than I have. I will struggle to do anything but keep the roof over the head and food in the kids' stomachs. The kids will get lots of great toys and fun stuff over there, and I won't be giving them that or able to afford extra curriculars, etc. Whatever. It's a really hopeless situation. And really all up to Hashem. |
I guess you need to counterattack such a xh. Attack that you need full custody or something like this.. it's outrageous what your xh is doing.
I feel lucky after reading your post. My xh has millions in cash but all is on trusts or other names. I get zero. But still better than me paying him child support. I'm poor and constantly worry how I will have money for the very basics.
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amother
Pumpkin
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Thu, Dec 03 2020, 12:28 pm
| amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote: | I guess you need to counterattack such a xh. Attack that you need full custody or something like this.. it's outrageous what your xh is doing.
I feel lucky after reading your post. My xh has millions in cash but all is on trusts or other names. I get zero. But still better than me paying him child support. I'm poor and constantly worry how I will have money for the very basics. |
That would be an additional court battle with a different judge, and there's no way I have the legal fees to support that or a even be able to make a case to change from 50/50. The default is 50/50, that's been the custody order for decade. It's basically almost impossible to change. I could spend $100k that I really don't have, not get anything changed, and now have the judge pissed at me if I ever came back if there were a real issue.
And I'm not poor enough to get pro bono legal fees or reduced legal fees. Also, this isn't NYC....The family courts here on a good day don't like seeing litigious parents over piddly stuff--they see parents actually dealing with really really messed up situations--homelessness, crime, drugs, etc--, and they really don't like it now when the courts are backed up with COVID.
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