Where do Jews go next?

amother

Hotpink

Thu, Oct 15 2020, 9:46 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

I'm sorry, but my son was assaulted by a policeman while walking down the street. He's a typical Chareidi yeshiva bochur. When he turned around and started speaking English the policeman stopped.

In all the years I have lived in the US, I have never had an incident where I or anyone I know was assaulted by the police.

I have no idea what happened. But I've lived here 30 years, all my relatives are charedi, and I can tell you charedim are NOT in danger of being tortured and attacked.

Maybe your son was walking near a demonstration that got out of hand? I don't know the back story. Nobody I know has been assaulted, and I am talking about my brothers, sisters, parents and their families.

Blessing1

Thu, Oct 15 2020, 9:47 am

amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:

You must be kidding. Where are you getting your information from? I live in Israel, and my very large extended family is VERY charedi. None of them feel they are being tortured and attacked.

I don't even know how to respond to this, it's so out there. If you are a normal law abiding citizen, you are not tortured and attacked. If you participate in violent extremist mobs who burn garbage cans and throw garbage at cops and reporters, then yes, you should expect to be treated accordingly (I still wouldn't call it torture).

It's no secret that the police in Israel hate chareidim, especially the frum chassidim. They taunt and mock whenever they have a chance to, even if they're law abiding. This has been going on forever.

amother

Hotpink

Thu, Oct 15 2020, 9:48 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

I live in the US and I feel safe. I don't feel hate here either.

Historically, Israel was always the least safe place for Jews to live.

You do know the Israel's longevity is one of the highest in the world? Much higher than the US. Jews live much longer here than in New York. It can't be that unsafe.

amother

Hotpink

Thu, Oct 15 2020, 9:49 am

Blessing1 wrote:

Do you live here?

Mommyg8

Thu, Oct 15 2020, 9:50 am

amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:

And if he was? Do you think it's ok to assault black people if they are walking near "a demonstration that got out of hand"?

We feel the same level of discrimination in Israel (maybe even more) that black people feel here. At least, that's how I see it.

Mommyg8

Thu, Oct 15 2020, 9:50 am

amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:

You do know the Israel's longevity is one of the highest in the world? Much higher than the US. Jews live much longer here than in New York. It can't be that unsafe.

I said "historically". Look up history.

amother

Linen

Thu, Oct 15 2020, 9:51 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Im sorry but one anecdotal account does not make it be scary for charedim to walk around.

Blessing1

Thu, Oct 15 2020, 9:51 am

amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:

Do you live here?

No, but my relatives do.
My aunt recently moved from Bet Shemesh to NY. It was getting to hard for them to live there as chassidish jews. She says the hostility towards chassidim is crazy. And she's a born and bred Israeli.

amother

Linen

Thu, Oct 15 2020, 9:52 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

I live in the US and I feel safe. I don't feel hate here either.

Historically, Israel was always the least safe place for Jews to live.

Great for you for feeling safe. I was replying to a specific reply. Not sure why you felt you needed to answer this.

Blessing1

Thu, Oct 15 2020, 9:52 am

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

Im sorry but one anecdotal account does not make it be scary for charedim to walk around.

I didn't say it's scary for chareidim to walk around. I don't think they'r scared, Israeli's by nature aren't scared. But you can't deny the the police hate chassidim.

Last edited by Blessing1 on Thu, Oct 15 2020, 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Mauve

Thu, Oct 15 2020, 9:53 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

I live in the US and I feel safe. I don't feel hate here either.

Historically, Israel was always the least safe place for Jews to live.

Things changed in that regard in 1948.

amother

Hotpink

Thu, Oct 15 2020, 9:53 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Show me how many charedim have been imprisoned for no good reason, or for reasons a secular person would not be imprisoned.

Then show me how many black people have been imprisoned for reasons a white person would never be.

Show me how many charedim have been shot at or arrested while going about their business.

Show me how many secular people have called police because a charedi person decided to take a stroll through their neighborhood, and they thought they might be a criminal.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Oct 15 2020, 9:55 am

Blessing1 wrote:

PLease, stop!!!! You are hearing stories from afar. You are hearing your relatives tales. But, again, this is not israel at large.

You sound like a perfect commercial for a slanted news site that only has stories about the awfulness of a country.

But if you actually lived here, you would over all see a different picture. I promise.

amother

Hotpink

Thu, Oct 15 2020, 9:58 am

Blessing1 wrote:

She lived in one of the most divided cities in Israel. The tension there between secular and charedi is insane. To give you an example, the charedi city reps just passed a bylaw where all the new streets in a certain secular neighborhood would be neutralized and erased of their Zionist and/or female roots (eg, Anna Frank St. was named Frank St, a street named after two brothers killed as soldiers was erased of their names and named The Brothers St, etc).

I don't deny there are tensions in Israel and there are some sectors that hate chassidim. There are also chassidim that hate secular people and actions like the above add fuel to the fire.

In any case, Beit Shemesh is the most volatile city in terms of divisions.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Oct 15 2020, 9:58 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

I live in the US and I feel safe. I don't feel hate here either.

Historically, Israel was always the least safe place for Jews to live.

Mommyg8, israel is a young country. When you say historically, if you mean before state hood and after that, but in those years, it is NOT like that today. Israel is probably the safest place for jews. Yes, before statehood and in times when wars were raging in the land, probably a bit scary, but to say that israel was probably the least safe place for jews shows a lot of ignorance.

Mommyg8

Thu, Oct 15 2020, 10:01 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Ok, I have to start working now, but let's just say that we will agree to disagree.

I'm not coming from a place of ignorance at all.

Blessing1

Thu, Oct 15 2020, 10:01 am

amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:

Chassidim in Yerushalayim are also plenty hated. But most people are so happy to live in Israel that they don't care. You need to be born and bred Israeli to be able to handle it. Chassidim moving there from NY now is not so simple and I don't think it will go over that well. I don't think it's a smart idea for chassidish families from NY to move to Israel now.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Oct 15 2020, 10:04 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Ok, I have to start working now, but let's just say that we will agree to disagree.

I'm not coming from a place of ignorance at all.

PLease come back later and explain what you mean by historically. It does not make any sense.

amother

Hotpink

Thu, Oct 15 2020, 10:05 am

Blessing1 wrote:

I'm not trying to convince anyone to move to Israel.

Many of my relatives are charedim in Jerusalem, and none of them have been arrested, detained, beaten up, or harassed by police.

I won't deny that many police aren't big fans of chassidim. Considering the huge ugly demonstrations some extremists like to throw, I don't blame them. But in general, if you are law abiding, Israel is perfectly safe for a chassidic person, certainly as safe as it is for a secular or DL person.