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amother




Hotpink
 

Post  Fri, Oct 16 2020, 5:20 am
amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:


I live in a mixed neighborhood, a rarity in Israel, and I get looks of revulsion just walking down the street. In Corona times, people cross the street or make a wide birth around us, muttering insulting comments, even though we are wearing masks properly.



It is not a rarity in Israel. Almost every standard city has mixed neighborhoods. I have been here 30 years, lived in various cities, and always our neighborhood was mixed religious - secular. (Sure there are also separate neighborhoods too in most cities, if you want. But IME most neighborhoods are mixed dati and secular. Though come to think of it, you do have a point that the very chassidic often segregate themselves in separate areas. But that is their choice. They can buy a house anyplace in town).

As for corona times, I cross the street and make a wide berth around ANYONE I come across when I am walking the dog in my neighborhood. I wonder if the charedim think I am doing it because they are charedi? That thought never crossed my mind.

(And to be honest, the populations where corona is most rampant in Israel are the charedim and the Arabs (both populations who are not too excited about the government or their policies). I personally steer clear of everyone during these times, but I can see why some might want to steer even clearer of people who they assume came from a 'red zone'. My friend's dd does sherut in a place with lots of Arabs who come daily from the Arab villages, and some extended family is convincing her to leave because the incidence of corona is so much higher there. It's not discrimination against Arabs, it's just being extra wary these days).
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amother




Orange
 

Post  Fri, Oct 16 2020, 5:28 am
Hopefully the next stop for us all is the Beis Hamikdash!
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amother




Hotpink
 

Post  Fri, Oct 16 2020, 5:33 am
amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:
I came to Israel as a liberal student, 2 decades ago. According to my mode of dress back then, it was probably hard to categorize me as religious. Everyone was friendly to me then. After I got married, my husband and I made choices that moved us more to the right until we were firmly in the charedi camp. Our dress and way of life is chassidish. And I have said that I can understand what it's like to be black in America.

I live in a mixed neighborhood, a rarity in Israel, and I get looks of revulsion just walking down the street. In Corona times, people cross the street or make a wide birth around us, muttering insulting comments, even though we are wearing masks properly.

I was a bleeding heart liberal when I first got here. Believed that we are all brothers. Trust me, I was looking for exactly the opposite of what I received. It's a very helpless feeling, to see someone shudder in revulsion when they look at you and your big, beautiful charedi family. I would never believe it can happen, except it happens to me all the time.

Israel is our home, but its galus and far from the perfect solution.


I want to add that I do agree that there is some animosity among SOME secular toward the charedi sector in Israel. There is resentment People are angry that only their sons have to risk their lives in the army, or at the very least 'waste' three years in the army. People are angry that they feel charedim are taking up more of the country's resources than necessary. They think charedim are taking more money out of the 'pot' than they are putting in (in other words, they don't work at high earning jobs, don't earn enough to pay a lot of taxes, get huge breaks even on city taxes/arnona, and yet get all sorts of subsidies and השלמת הכנסה etc).
People are also really upset at what they consider the charedi dictatorship over areas like marriage, conversion, kashrut etc. There is a lot of clash of values, like when charedim want to use city taxes to throw a performance only with male performers and a separate male/female audience, and the secular are upset at the discrimination against women performers and sending women to the sidelines.
The secular are angry that the charedi even won't let them name street names after women or Zionist figures (see Beit Shemesh).
So yes, I can see how a charedi person walking the streets in certain areas MIGHT feel animosity in the air (although, as others have said, most secular people - even if they are angry at the above- still like charedim as people). Most secular don't feel this resentment toward specific charedim they meet on the street, just like they don't hate specific Arabs they meet on the street - it's more a general theoretical feeling.

NOT getting into whether the secular are right or not - just that there is some animosity among some of them. Many charedim also have animosity toward the secular. Just see how comfortable a group of secular girls would feel to walk through Geulah or Meah Shearim. Many of the charedim don't like the secular one bit more than many of the secular like the charedim.

Sooo--- all this was to say that no one is denying that there is animosity among SOME parts of the society. But this animosity doesn't mean there is police brutality. I agree there is animosity, anger, resentment. I do NOT agree there is police brutality against charedim, not one little bit. If anything, there is great restraint, considering how often certain charedi groups get violent.
Not only that, but as another poster said, a blind eye is VERY often turned to charedim breaking the law, in the name of peace. If the police had gone to every shul/minyan/wedding/funeral that blatantly broke the law, thousands of charedim would already be in jail.
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shirachadasha




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Oct 16 2020, 5:51 am
Ruchel wrote:
Jews vote right but benefit from left money

In the U.S., many frum Jews vote right but the majority of Jews do not.
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Success10




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Oct 16 2020, 5:55 am
shirachadasha wrote:
In the U.S., many frum Jews vote right but the majority of Jews do not.


??
ETA: I think I get what you are saying now.
You mean religious Jews mostly vote right, but non-religious Jews mostly do not? Because that makes more sense.
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amother




Tangerine
 

Post  Fri, Oct 16 2020, 9:36 am
I live in Israel and I want to leave. Not because of the police violence but because of this never ending lockdown. I feel like I am in prison in my own house. We are 9 people in the house full-time. No schools or yeshivas and I can't take it anymore. To make things worse, I live in a red city and when the whole country will open up, we will still be on lockdown - with police officers guarding the entrance and exit of our city.

I am so depressed right now, I don't have patience for this life anymore.
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amother




Hotpink
 

Post  Fri, Oct 16 2020, 10:05 am
amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:
I live in Israel and I want to leave. Not because of the police violence but because of this never ending lockdown. I feel like I am in prison in my own house. We are 9 people in the house full-time. No schools or yeshivas and I can't take it anymore. To make things worse, I live in a red city and when the whole country will open up, we will still be on lockdown - with police officers guarding the entrance and exit of our city.

I am so depressed right now, I don't have patience for this life anymore.


I am so sorry to hear that. While I agree with the lockdown and think we should make all efforts to curb corona, I realize that there are groups who suffer more than others.

A family of nine stuck in an apartment is suffering a lot more than a family of four in a house with a yard, or in a roomy flat with a porch. They will suffer even more if their kids aren't spending a lot of time online. It must be very, very hard.

That's how many of the red cities got to be red cities in the first place - they are so crowded that corona had a field day.
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