Tips for magazine writers

amother

Burgundy

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 1:59 pm

ExtraCredit wrote:

The tone of the criticism is what matters!

Even snarky folks can be right sometimes. Infuriating, but true. For the author (artist/cook/screenwriter/movie director etc) the goal is to listen and learn.

amother

Amethyst

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 2:00 pm

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

Honest criticism of someone's work isn't lashon hara. How do you think someone improves (in any area)? You try, someone points out how it could be done better, and you try again.

Criticism should be fair and impersonal, and deal with the product, not the person. But stifling all criticism? Not a good idea, for many reasons.

Honesty doesn't make something less lashon hara. And the tone, relationship and context all matter. If criticism is really meant to be constructive, it should be presented in a constructive way.

ExtraCredit

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 2:01 pm

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

Even snarky folks can be right sometimes. Infuriating, but true. For the author (artist/cook/screenwriter/movie director etc) the goal is to listen and learn.

True, but snarky folks are usually ok if others are snarky back. Otherwise it’s a one way snarky street!

amother

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 2:06 pm

amother [ Sienna ] wrote:

Due the wording of your original post it seemed you would be able to take that which you uh..dished. But I'll delete (extra credit if you don't mind deleting my post in your comment as well I'd appreciate it). Thank you so much for the incredibly helpful tips op!!! Amazing advice!! (That's the response you were looking for right?)

I edited my original post as well, to make the first example less identifiable.

amother

Wine

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 2:08 pm

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

Thanks Rabbi Burgundy. Maybe go back to rabbinical school though. This is false.

amother

Burgundy

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 2:13 pm

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

Honesty doesn't make something less lashon hara. And the tone, relationship and context all matter. If criticism is really meant to be constructive, it should be presented in a constructive way.

That would be best. But I'm willing to learn from others, no matter how they express themselves. Who wants to be a dictator and declare all criticism off limits? Criticism is the mother of improvement. Sharp criticism has its place.

amother

Burgundy

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 2:15 pm

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

Thanks Rabbi Burgundy. Maybe go back to rabbinical school though. This is false.

That was snarky. Helpful criticism would cite the Chofetz Chaim. Where exactly do we learn that constructive criticism is illegitimate?

amother

Wine

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 2:17 pm

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

I'm happy for you that you're willing to learn from others. As a Jew, though, you don't get to decide that criticism on a public forum is okay because its constructive.

OP edited her post so teh author is no longer identifiable. That's great.

it is ossur to publicly shame/criticize the work of a Jewish person. Full stop.

amother

Wine

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 2:20 pm

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

That was snarky. Helpful criticism would cite the Chofetz Chaim. Where exactly do we learn that constructive criticism is illegitimate?

Check out sefer chofetz chaim for details.

Also:

Our Sages said: "Anyone who publicly mortifies his companion has no portion in the World to Come." Therefore, a person should be careful not to publicly embarrass a fellow Jew, whether of greater or lesser stature; one must not call another by an embarrassing name, nor relate a shameful matter in his presence.

amother

Sienna

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 2:24 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thank you for deleting your reply. That was the personal attack I had been referring to.

A personal attack can only be personal if I knew the first thing about you. As it is- I only know that you went two either Harvard or Yale and dislike the sloppiness of frum magazines and enjoy harping on silly mistakes, some made years ago. I'm sorry if I wasn't blown away by your credentials or your clearly judgmental vent-but hun, we're judged by the image we put forth. Something to keep in mind every morning when going into the (non profit?) office.

amother

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 2:28 pm

amother [ Sienna ] wrote:

A personal attack can only be personal if I knew the first thing about you.

It absolutely is a personal attack when you call me names (you called me pompous and elitist) and when you say I am probably just as awful in my personal and family relationships as I am to the writers here. How is that not personal, or are you going to pretend that deleting your cruel words means you never wrote them, or that I never read them?

amother

Sienna

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 2:33 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

But I don't know a thing about you, you're an anonymous woman writing on the internet in hopes of enlightening the masses. And I didn't say probably, I simply wondered if your extreme reaction to mistakes makes it difficult in other areas of your life. If you don't like the frum magazines there's no need to read them, there are so many other things to read! No reason to call out specific writers, it's terribly painful for them. I would think you'd be able to understand that sensitivity.
No I don't write for that publication...but still. Did you not think your post came off just a teeny tiny insy winsy bit elitist?

amother

Burgundy

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 2:35 pm

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

Thanks. Exactly where in the Chofetz Chaim? I'm not aware that all criticism is forbidden, so if you can cite chapter and verse, I'd be grateful.

I didn't see the original post, which apparently called out a particular writer by name. I wouldn't do that, but to point out that a certain kind of magazine regularly drops the ball when editing is fair game. If I were one of the editors, I'd feel uncomfortable and defensive at first, but if I cared to do my job well, I'd take the criticism to heart and start doing better.

You're talking about shaming someone, and I'm wondering why you equate reasonable criticism with shame.

The laws of lashon hara don't allow false praise, because then someone hearing it might be moved to say it isn't true. (Chofetz Chaim, lavin 16.) Somehow, the recipients.of fawning reviews don't complain that it's lashon hara to write nice things about their books.

amother

Brunette

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 2:40 pm

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

That is not a Torah concept. Lashon hara and onaas devarim don't become okay when someone is a published author.

so why did Siena and her followers think it was OK to spread lashon hara or even dibah about OP?

amother

Wine

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 2:43 pm

Have you ever peeked into sefer chofetz chaim, Burgundy? Because not speaking negatively about a person/their work is pretty much the premise of his entire work.

And no, I'm not going to pick out verses for you, no matter how grateful that would make you. Flip it open and turn to any page. You'll find whatever you see illuminating, I'm guessing.

As to the rest of your post, it is irrelevant how you take criticism or how you believe other should take criticism. But please, tell us your name and what you do. I'm sure I''ll have constructive criticism to write on this public forum for your benefit.

amother

Sienna

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 2:44 pm

amother [ Brunette ] wrote:

so why did Siena and her followers think it was OK to spread lashon hara or even dibah about OP?

very curious if it's actually LH if every person is anonymous. Calling out a specific real writer on a public forum is very different.

amother

Brunette

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 2:45 pm

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

If an author publishes an article with mistakes, everyone reading the article can see there is a mistake. So the fact that the author made a mistake is already publicly known.

Therefore, not the person pointing out the mistake is speaking lashon hara, but rather the author about himself (by signing an article containing errors) or the editor who did not catch the mistake.

mommy2379

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 2:46 pm

amother [ Brunette ] wrote:

I don't think it works that way. If someone falls publicly and everyone see's and then those who saw recount the event over and over among themselves- still LH.

amother

Brunette

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 2:47 pm

amother [ Sienna ] wrote:

very curious if it's actually LH if every person is anonymous. Calling out a specific real writer on a public forum is very different.

The real writer is already published, with the mistakes. So the mistakes are already known. There is no lashon hara on things that are already publicly known.