Why Americans happy in israel but Israelies miserable in USA

Mommyg8

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 6:03 pm

gold21 wrote:

Maybe not entirely, but enough for a new immigrant to feel comfortable at school

From what I've heard through the grapevine, children, and especially teenagers, have a miserable time adjusting from the US to Israel. Even in these schools that you are referring to. Anybody who moved from the US to Israel as a child who can chime in here?

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 6:06 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Mommyg8, do you really think what you are saying is the case for every single oleh from the US? Think about that. It is not so. And again, you are meeting people from one type of community.
There are so many families who make aliyah and their children do fine or even thrive in school, with the right help and right peer group. Yes, there are those that dont ever adapt and they return, but the majority, over all, do succeed and grow up here to become successful parts of israeli society.

amother

Blue

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 7:25 pm

I know Israelis who are happy in America (or Europe, for that matter)

I also know Israelis who love to complain about living in the US but would never move back. Both men and women.

Israelis tend to leave for personal reasons, sometimes political. I've found that some find it hard to get used to how Jewish life is arranged differently here. Some wind up in Israeli bubbles where they rarely socialize with American Jews. The chiloni Israeli mentality doesn't always have an equivalent here, even with secular Jews.

Some only left for a career move and didn't intend to make it permanent but now find it hard to return.

It's a general rule of moving that teens have a harder time than young children adjusting to a new culture and language. It's not particular to Israel. It's also a generalization that can't necessarily be used to predict individual behavior *Some* olim find the move tricky because of specific differences between American and Israeli culture especially for haredim.

amother

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 8:01 pm

amother [ Blue ] wrote:

j
There are rarely any frum Israelies that move to the US. So there aren’t really bubbles. The ones that move are because of marrying an American or the rare move of a rabbi that is requested.

amother

Aqua

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 10:55 pm

I’m an Israeli that lives in America and I’m overall happy.
Yes I would like to live near my family and would love to go to israel more often. However, I know my life in America is significantly better than what they would be living in israel.
When I lived in israel I didn’t have a penny to my name. And although the beginning here was extremely hard, we made it and are now settled. I can’t imagine raising my children there where they would be a complete misfits or working hard without being able to cover my bills.
I miss israel terribly but not for long term living. My dream is to move back once my kids are older and I have enough money to settle there.
Some things I miss about israel and some things I really don’t, like when we went to visit and the bus driver closed the door leaving my two year old on the sidewalk.(I was trying to park my folded double stroller on the bus and I couldn’t hold the baby and her hand while carrying the stroller so I told her to come with me but she just stood there...)

I’m gonna add: in both countries I dont feel a sense of belonging. I was the American in israel and I am now the Israeli in America. When people say it as an insult “your so Israeli”my response is “it’s a fact of life-same way I’m a female- I’m an Israeli”.

amother

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 11:04 pm

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

I agree with you. But why will your children be misfits in israel? Why were you American in israel? Aren’t you Israeli? You are still dreaming of going back to Israel though.

amother

Aqua

Sun, Nov 29 2020, 11:10 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I agree with you. But why will your children be misfits in israel? Why were you American in israel? Aren’t you Israeli? You are still dreaming of going back to Israel though.

Because my parents are American and grew up in an English speaking area.
My kids would be misfits because of the narrow minded schools. We are very frum but my husband works. It’s a combo that barely exists there. Either u fight to get your kids into good schools and they are considered “modern” or u send to the more open minded schools that hashkafically don’t suit my home.

essie14

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 12:28 am

I dont think I know any Americans who live in America who will ever say they are miserable so that's a weird option, IMO.

The generalizations here are incredible. I made aliyah from the US, I couldn't be happier here. You couldn't pay me to live in America. (and we were literally offered double my husbands salary to move back and we said No)
We know literally hundreds of families who made aliyah with children of all ages who are THRIVING here. Yes, we know a few families here and there who left but 99% of everyone I know who made aliyah is very happy and their kids are doing really well.

essie14

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 12:29 am

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

Completely untrue. Do some research. There are plenty of communities where husbands work and the families are "very frum"

moonstone

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 12:42 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Exactly Americans are very happy in israel but the Israelies I know in the US wish they can go back to Israel but can’t because of numerous reasons

I know a lot of Israelis in the US and can't think of even one who wants to move back to Israel.

On the other hand, I know plenty of Americans who made aliyah but weren't happy here and moved back to the US.

juggling

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 12:56 am

I think there are a lot of generalizations here all over the place, filtered through each poster's personal experience. Most people will have a hard time moving from where they consider home. For some people the benefits of their new life will mitigate that and they will be happy, despite the challenge adjusting.

I'd like to clarify one important point about the young couple who moved back to America because life in Israel was so hard, having to carry their groceries on the bus. You know that's not Israel, right? That's the lifestyle they chose when living in Israel. Why don't they shlep their groceries on the bus in America? Either they have a car, or they order their groceries online, presumably. Most Israelis have cars. Online grocery shopping is an easy option in Israel. If they moved from America and gave up their car or their internet, of course they'd find it hard. If you want to be happy in a new country, make sure you arrange your new life so you have the things you need to feel comfortable!

amother

Babypink

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 12:59 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Sure, why not. Im curious. Smile

Yes there are schools in RBS that are geared towards American kids making Aliya. All kids speak English (a child who doesn’t wouldn’t feel comfortable there), the parents speak English between themselves, the school emails are in English. The principals speak English.
Of course the kids learn in Hebrew but most teachers speak English as well.
I’m talking about charedi schools if that helps.
There are entire communities in RBS that speak English with English speaking Rabbis.

amother

Coffee

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 1:02 am

Born and raised in Israel. Living in America for +20 years. I won't lie -- it has not always been easy...

But I voted 'Happy Israeli in the USA' because generally speaking, I see myself as happy.

I believe happiness is a choice, and I also believe in making lemonade out of lemon, no matter where life throws you.

I acclimated to life here, made some friends (Americans, mostly), utilized opportunities for advanced studies that I could only dream of in Israel... Found my calling in my profession of choice -- that made a huge difference for me, and in my level of happiness.

Raising my Kids in America does have some advantages. Yes, I have been lonely on many occasions. But at the end of the day, we can all experience some loneliness sometime, no matter where we are.

Making my husband's family into my own extended family does help, although I miss my parents and siblings who are in Israel. Now with COVID, this pain and longing to see them has increased. I cannot go, and it is hard. Even before COVID, it was not always easy or possible to take off from work, and come up with the funds to go away. (Some years, it was either a vacation or going back home to visit). Then, when I return here, another period of adjustment...The hardest part? That even when I go to Israel to visit, I no longer feel like I completely belong. Sometimes I think in English.
I do not think I am purely Israeli anymore. My identity is a hybrid between American and Israeli. But with an accent like mine, others see me as Israeli. Also in Shiduchim, maybe I am imagining it, but I do feel it plays a role...Some Americans (or New Yorkers?) are biased against Israelis. They may not admit it, but I feel it. It can hurt sometimes but I try not to let it bother me. B"H, I have my family and my friends, and I am grateful for all I have. Happiness is a choice.

juggling

Mon, Nov 30 2020, 1:03 am

amother [ Babypink ] wrote:

Do you live in RBS and send to a school like this? Admittedly I am not charedi, so there may be schools I don't know about, but I am pretty sure even the most "American" schools also serve Israelis and have Israeli teachers. Yes, there are schools where there is a lot of English spoken, but as far as I know none of them are exclusively American (also, not all English-speakers are from America...). RBS is soft landing, but it is not America, and will 100% involve an adjustment in many ways.