S/O Why the word aspergers should be abolished.

amother

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 2:08 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

People with Asperger's cannot learn to read other people, because that part of their brain does not connect. They can learn to copy behavior, but they never acquire innate skill.

I also mentor an incredibly sweet girl with mild Asperger's. She's desperate to fit into her peer group, but cannot for the life of her understand why people say what the do, or if they are teasing or not. She doesn't get jokes. She doesn't know if a boy likes her or not.

Even though I learned to read people, I do have to still focus and remind myself to do it. It's not natural like for you. We learn but at the end of the day there's still a struggle there and it never feels fully natural. We never feel like we fully fit in.

I was that little girl. So are you saying I had aspergers as a kid and grew out of it into ASD? Most people I know were like that more as a little kid before therapy and help understanding the world.

All the information online doesn't seem to explain it quite like you do. The autism community today does not really use the word aspergers and someone like your Ex DH would be on the spectrum somewhere.

Autism is such a broad spectrum. Some people can learn and other's can't. Some people are really sensitive to sensory and others less so. Some hate touch and others crave it!

Either way the name Aspergers should at the very least be changed.

Can you link some information explaining the difference between ASD and Aspergers? I have not seen any information like what you wrote. It's interesting since me and other people I know were diagnosed as Aspergers as a kid, and I'm still reffered to that sometimes today by doctors but I'm nothing like your ex DH.

amother

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 2:12 pm

nylon wrote:

The other issue is that we talk about things like "high" and "low" and autism isn't a single spectrum. We can recognize extremes, but because each autistic person has a unique set of strengths and challenges it's difficult to draw a specific line. We may have criteria to do so in the future but at the moment we lack it.

I do think high and low can easily be defined as with the ammount of difficulty preforming daily tasks.

That's how Bituach Leumi in Israel (who does the disabled stipend) defines how much money people receive. You are given a percentage of how disabled you are within that definition.

There's a separate percentage given based on your ability to work as well.

I agree with everything you wrote. Everyone is SOOO different! I was diagnosed as AS also originally and at some point my tik refui - medical file had all 3 labels: AS, PDD, and ASD. No one knew WHAT to call me. I think it still has Aspergers on there. Can't seem to get it removed.

LOL

Thank you for posting under your username and making me feel less alone.

funkyfrummom

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 3:02 pm

I didn't know Asperger's personal background and appreciate the OP bringing it to my attention. I have to say, though, that it ("Aspergers") is not the current terminology being used within my field.

I work in special education (in a specialized school, not Jewish). We don't use the term Aspergers in any official way (because it is not in the DSM-V). We/I do use it, informally, when parents themselves use it.

The majority of students that I work with that the layperson would consider to have "Aspergers" actually fit the diagnostic criteria for Social Pragmatic Language Disorder. Sometimes that is their Dx, sometimes they have ASD as their Dx, and sometimes they have neither! That's kinda how things go, lol. My students are whole beings, not just a label anyway. As an educator, the focus isn't a particular diagnosis or term, it is more about finding what are the best strategies to support someone's learning.

number

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 3:26 pm

I did not know that about the term aspergers. Thank you for educating me. There’s such a huge range that falls under the autism umbrella, which is why people like to use terms that differentiate. But clearly the term aspergers isn’t a proper one and I’m sorry for those times I’ve used it.

Although now I think about it there are those with ? That refer to themselves as having aspergers. And I used the term after they used it first. So I wonder if not everyone agrees with you.

amother

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 3:56 pm

number wrote:

Not everyone does but not everyone knows its history. I haven't heard anyone refer to themselves as being apsergers in the last few years. In the online autism community I don't see it either. I follow a bunch of popular informative autistic people on Instagram.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 4:14 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.....drome

Of all the research I've done, this is still the most comprehensive description I've ever read. It's fully sourced in the footnotes. Of course not every single person is going to tick every single box, but it gives you a good overview of the syndrome.

Two of the main differentials between ASD and Aspergers, is that people with Aspergers have little to no Theory of Mind or empathy. People with Autism can be quite aware of other people's thoughts and feelings, and can relate. The lack of empathy is so pronounced in Aspergers, it was originally considered a psychopathy.

The difference is that true psychopaths are aware that they are psychopaths, they just don't care. People with Aspergers are unaware of their behavior, and how it affects others. If pointed out, they often won't see it, and may even deny it. (I don't mean to imply that they are insane criminals, CVS. I'm just talking about the diagnostic label.)

I understand that it is problematic, at best, to have a syndrome named after a Nazi. I would like to see it changed, but still kept separate from ASD.

paperflowers

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 4:19 pm

Hi OP, I never knew the history behind the term for Aspergers. If a different name would be used would you agree that there is value in distinguishing that set of characteristics from high functioning autism?

Many people who were originally diagnosed with Aspergers preferred that term to high functioning autism, but clearly that’s not the case for everyone, including you. I’m sure you know more than I do about the online community, but I hadn’t heard about the shift towards the term ASD.

FF, if you’ve met one person with autism, you’ve met one person with autism. There may be traits that distinguish Aspergers (clearly debatable) but your statement that they can’t be taught just isn’t true across the board. That may have been the case of your ex, but he’s one person who, as you said, wasn’t interested in getting help.

To the people asking what distinguishes high and low functioning autism, DSM-5 defines 3 levels according to level of support required.

amother

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 4:19 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

Of all the research I've done, this is still the most comprehensive description I've ever read. It's fully sourced in the footnotes. Of course not every single person is going to tick every single box, but it gives you a good overview of the syndrome.

Two of the main differentials between ASD and Aspergers, is that people with Aspergers have little to no Theory of Mind or empathy. People with Autism can be quite aware of other people's thoughts and feelings, and can relate. The lack of empathy is so pronounced in Aspergers, it was originally considered a psychopathy.

The difference is that true psychopaths are aware that they are psychopaths, they just don't care. People with Aspergers are unaware of their behavior, and how it affects others. If pointed out, they often won't see it, and may even deny it. (I don't mean to imply that they are insane criminals, CVS. I'm just talking about the diagnostic label.)

I understand that it is problematic, at best, to have a syndrome named after a Nazi. I would like to see it changed, but still kept separate from ASD.

I hear you and I hear the difference.

I think the issue is for years aspergers has been overdiagnosed. Me, another poster on this thread, and others I know have empathy and were all diagnosed with aspergers as children. If the term isn't used accurately than I don't know if it SHOULD be used. I see people all the time use aspergers and autism interchangeably. In informative articles, in real life, even clearly by mental health specialists.

amother

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 4:24 pm

paperflowers wrote:

You clearly don't agree with FF's definition of Aspergers so what do you see the definition as?
If no one can clearly give it a definition maybe it shouldn't exist - even with a new name.

As it seems to be - everyone on here disagrees on it's definition - me and many people were diagnosed as aspergers years ago and are now ASD, when DH was originally diagnosed 2 years ago his physiatrist referred to it as aspergers as well and now he refers to it as ASD too.

Raisin

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 4:25 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Was your ex ever diagnosed or treated?

Most people his age would not have been. That may explain his behaviour.

There are plenty of neurotypical jerks too.

Franticfrummie, you are doing your best to imply that people with Aspergers (a term that is not used officially anymore but may still be used informally to refer to high functioning autism) are horrible insensitive people. Maybe some of them are. Especially if not given any help or therapy. I think you are helping to create a stigma that you claim to be fighting against.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 4:31 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

This is exactly WHY the terms should be kept separate. If you were treated as if you had Asperger's, and you didn't have the majority of those traits, then you were done a great disservice.

Kids who are shy, quiet, anxious, and otherwise intelligent may or may not have Asperger's, but slapping the label on every kid who doesn't fit into the perfect student mold doesn't help anything either.

I wish more people understood the spectrum. When I learned that my ex had Asperger's, I stopped hating him for his lack of empathy. I learned that it cannot be taught, that he's not being mean to me on purpose, and that it is not his fault that Hashem made him this way.

It actually made me more empathetic towards him, and helped me realize that he will never be happy with me, and I will never be happy with him. He could easily turn around and say that I'm needy, over emotional, and unpredictable! Our personalities and emotional needs were completely incompatible.

I had to accept that no amount of marriage therapy or "working on it" was going to change things between us, and to expect more from him than he was capable of giving was unfair. It would be just as wrong for him to insist that I be less "dramatic" and to think logically all the time.

amother

Black

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 4:32 pm

I don't like the origin of the term, but as someone who has a child on high functioning end of the spectrum, I do find it strange that he is in the same group as my nephew who can't be left alone for a minute or he might destroy something. (and my nephew is relatively high functioning - he can go to the toilet, read, talk, etc)

My son (aged 16) is bright, sweet, kind, funny and helpful. He is very literal and a bit awkward and still needs reminders to shower etc but he is polite and friendly. Years of therapy have hopefully paid off.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 4:41 pm

Raisin wrote:

Wow, way to misunderstand every single thing I've just written! Can't Believe It

I said that misdiagnosing people does then a disservice, and they need appropriate therapy. I said that I have many friends with ASD and Asperger's, and yes, they are all very different from each other.

I said that I know many happy marriages with people on the spectrum, many NT to ASD marriages. I never, not once, said that there was no such thing as an NT jerk. I know plenty of those, too.

My ex was not diagnosed. His parents were Holocaust survivors. The way he describes them implies that they were either very cool and distant parents, or that they were also on the spectrum. With survivors, it's hard to tell sometimes, because it may just be trauma.

I think if my ex had the right therapies, he would be a much happier person, instead of being so paranoid, controlling, and anxious all the time. We still wouldn't have been compatible, but he would have had more coping tools.

I DO NOT HATE HIM AS A PERSON! I hated the situation that we were in, and the dynamic it caused.

The young lady I mentor who has Asperger's, is incredibly sweet. She just wants to understand people and fit in. She struggles a LOT, and feels lonely all the time. She wants to connect, but can't seem to figure it out.

amother

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 4:43 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

But according to many websites aspergers is mildly functioning. If someone is higher functioning (for example me) than what am I?

That's why it all should be called ASD.

With every disorder you have a spectrum. With ADHD you have people who are completely unreliable, can't hold a job, end up addicted to things, no responsibility, and then there's people who you would never know. With anxiety some people can have it so bad they need to take strong medications - they are terrified to leave their house or see people or live while others don't need any medication at all and it barely affects their lives.

amother

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 4:49 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

If PHSYCHIATRISTS are misunderstanding the term and misdiagnosing thousands - I dont think it should be used. If no one knows the difference anymore.

Everyone with ASD is different. DH struggles so much with flexibility and black and white thinking while I'm fine with that and I deal with other symptoms like disassociation, emotion regulation, and more.

Quote:

Asperger’s was once considered different from ASD. But a diagnosis of Asperger’s no longer exists.
The signs and symptoms that were once part of an Asperger’s diagnosis now fall under ASD.

https://www.healthline.com/hea.....utism

Aspergers was left out of the DSM5 and as of 2013 isn't a medical term.

amother

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 4:52 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

After all the responses, I still can’t figure out why being called autistic is preferable to being called someone with Asperger’s.

Why not? I personally associate the term aspergers with people lower functioning - similar to FF's ex DH which is what I was told as a child all I could be was. I also associate it with the terrible person who it's named after.

Aspergers is associated with specific traits, while ASD or Autism can mean a range of different things. When you picture someone with aspergers it's usually someone like FF's ex DH. When you hear ASD it can mean anything really - it's as vague as saying depression or anxiety. It is totally different from person to person.

Also medically it's all called ASD now.

paperflowers

Thu, Dec 24 2020, 5:20 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I’m undecided if I think it should be its own category or not. I’d say it’s ASD with strong verbal abilities and the repetition/stereotypical behaviors tend to take the form of intense restricted interests rather than stimming. They have difficulty with abstraction and perspective taking, so can appear callous - this isn’t different than ASD, just more pronounced because of their strong verbal skills. I don’t know if that’s enough for a separate diagnosis but it might be helpful to differentiate as a subform. The opinion of the ASD community matters, and from what you are saying, they don’t think Aspergers is separate.