Do you know geirim and BTs in real life?

singleagain

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 11:39 am

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

This is weird because I considered myself open minded and have friends from many communities... but come to think of it, I don't think I know any baalei teshuva IRL. Unless you count all my amother friends on here Smile

I was friends with a giyores at one point (I've moved since) but no BTs. And I know another ger that is part of our community (I think his wife is a BT, but I can't count it as I don't know them personally)

I'm literally shaking my head right now. I can't believe I never thought about this. I'd be thrilled to get to know and befriend any gerim or BTs (or FFBs) I guess it just never happened? So weird.

To put this into context, I've lived in the tristate area large Jewish communities my whole life, and also, I'm chassidish.

ETA: Also! I know someone who grew up frum, (so I didn't think about it before) but she was megayer as a little girl when her family was megayer.

Is it possible that you don't know because they've never mentioned it because it's so not an issue in their life?

amother

Ginger

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 11:51 am

I know many BTs and at least 5 Geirim personally (3 women, 2 men).

My parents walked one couple done to the chuppah after their conversion. And one of my best friends her father is a ger after she was born. 2 of my neighbors (in Lakewood) are geirim - 2 of the most special ppl I know.

All wonderful ppl. Each very different. (1 person left yiddishkeit completely but my understanding is he is still considered a Jew no matter what).

amother

Salmon

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 11:58 am

DH is a BT and I am technically a giyores but functionally more like a BT. My mom is a giyores also.

DH and I are MO and our background is not a stigma at all in our OOT community. With the MO folks it is not an issue at all. With the more right wing, I think our being MO is much more of a significant distinction than our origins. Many of the more right wing families are themselves BT, children of BT, or have at least one BT married into their family. A few have a ger.

In a community where being BT or ger is not stigmatized, you would usually eventually find out that someone is one of these, if you or your kids interact often with the family. Unless it is a very unique situation where the person's entire extended family is estranged or dead, or unless the parents are deliberately keeping the background secret (the latter tends to indicate a certain amount of stigma or fear of stigma).

There are lots of people in our community who don't know our family well, but with those who frequently socialize with us or our kids, they almost all know I'm pretty sure. DH and I don't go around telling our journey stories constantly, but we spend time regularly with our extended families and many people in the community have met them. Our young kids know which relatives are non-frum or non-Jewish, and have commented about it to their friends and teachers. It's not like our families of origin are some dim part of our past or a footnote in our yichus. They are very much part of our present life and we are not embarrassed of them.

chanchy123

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 12:07 pm

Crookshanks wrote:

Not knowing a lot of BTs or geirim doesn't make you insular or a bad person. It just happens to be your life situation. As it happens, I only know (currently) one ba'alas teshuva. My friend growing up years ago converted but she moved approx 10 years ago.

If certainly doesn’t make you a bad person, but probably indicates that your community is very insular either because BTs and geirim feel the need to keep their background quiet or because these types of people don’t became part of your community.
The poll question made me start thinking about the backgrounds of the people in my community in a way I never did before, categorising them by FFB/BT/Ger status - it was weird. So my answer is yes I know plenty of geirim and BTs including in my immediate family.

Crookshanks

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 12:14 pm

chanchy123 wrote:

Either that or it's just a non issue. Can't Believe It

PeanutMama

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 12:27 pm

What kinda q is this lol?!

I know like maybe 2 other female geirim and 4 men who are geirim (my husband and his friends who are also geirim.) and I’m friends with the ladies and one bt woman who I’m also friends with.

Last edited by PeanutMama on Thu, Apr 22 2021, 4:56 pm; edited 2 times in total

amother

Oak

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 12:29 pm

singleagain wrote:

Is it possible that you don't know because they've never mentioned it because it's so not an issue in their life?

I doubt it, because I know their families too.

Hey! We have family friends that are baalei teshuva! My grandfather was mekarev them a million years ago, and my mom and her sisters are friends with their daughters. Yay! I do know a couple of BTs personally!

amother

Salmon

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 12:34 pm

Crookshanks wrote:

Either that or it's just a non issue. Can't Believe It

What do you mean by that? If a BT or ger are not purposely keeping their background a secret, it almost certainly won't remain a secret. Their kids will know and will mention it uninhibitedly when something related comes up.

thunderstorm

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 12:35 pm

My mother is a BT and father is a ger. My in laws are both geirim . The other day my DHs coworker came over to him to vent because he likes my DH and respects him. He was kvetching to him about having difficulties with finding a shidduch for his daughter . He was saying that finally finally she had a shidduch redt to her and all things look great, but one of the parents were m’gayer and he can’t let her think of going out with someone like that. My DH was quiet and didn’t say a word that he is exactly like that guy being redt. The child of geirim. If only this man would know. We are normal Jews and don’t have horns. I promise.

amother

Ginger

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 12:40 pm

thunderstorm wrote:

Someone I know was dating and on the 3rd date the boy told her his mother was a ger. Her parents went to rav to ask what to do. The rav said if you break the shidduch bec of this then you are saying you are too good even for dovid hamelech.
They got married.

The only issue is if a father becomes a ger after his children are born. The daughters cannot marry kohanim.

amother

Ruby

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 12:58 pm

cbsp wrote:

An FFB accompanied a recent BT to a previous Gerrer Rebbe (don't remember which one, heard this story in a Rabbi Reisman shiur ~20 years ago) and introduced the fellow, saying this man is a ba'al teshuva, not me.

The Rebbe sharply responded "and why not you as well?"

Must be the same story but heard it slightly differently-
Rebbe asked man which yeshiva he's learning in. He replied "name of yeshiva" which was a yeshiva popular with bt's and said I'm learning there but I'm not a baal tshuva. Rebbe pointedly asked, "farvooss nisht?"

Crookshanks

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 1:09 pm

amother [ Salmon ] wrote:

That's not necessarily true. When I meet people, I don't generally grill them on their family background. Little kids do not run around yelling, my parents are BTs! And family background just doesn't come up that much in my day to day life.

amother

Salmon

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 1:13 pm

Crookshanks wrote:

If you meet people once at a kiddush, sure. Like I said upthread, many people in our community who know us only very casually might not know. But if people interact regularly things come up.

Your example is silly. I don't think my kids even know the word BT. But they certainly know that their grandparents drive on Shabbos and their cousins celebrate x-mas. Trust me, these things come up over the course of recurring interactions.

Pamela

Thu, Apr 22 2021, 1:13 pm

thunderstorm wrote:

why?? Why the stigma?? Sorry OP your DH had to go through that