Why Some Orthodox Jewish Women Won’t Get Vaccinated

flowerpower

Fri, Jun 11 2021, 11:45 am

amother [ Gladiolus ] wrote:

There was a rise in crime specifically against the Jewish community. Advocating for ourselves is worth it.

Hillel summs it up well:

"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, who am I? If not now, when?"

Remember those terrible terrorists called Israel? They were killing many innocent little palastinian kinderlach for no good reason? That is when the rise happened. Not when the failing newspaper decided to continue with their boring agenda.

fleetwood

Fri, Jun 11 2021, 11:47 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

There are a few things in this article that bother me. The above is one of them.

It's a little disingenuous to state that there is no current evidence that the coronavirus vaccine can cause fertility problems, when in actual fact there is no current evidence that shows that it DOESN'T cause fertility problems. Have they really tested it carefully for this issue?

The second thing that bothers me is the perception that it is only people who reside in certain zip codes who are vaccine hesitant. I have met many people from all walks of life (Chassidish, not Chassidish, modern, barely frum, non Jewish) who are very hesitant about taking the vaccine.

There is no evidence that this vaccine is completely safe, and if anything, it is pretty obvious that we don't yet know the long term side effects.

A third issue I have with this article is pointing to the low vaccination rates in the Orthodox Jewish community without pointing out that the median age in the Orthodox Jewish community is MUCH lower as well. IOW, young people are less likely to get vaccinated, and we have much more young people.

This reminds me of the saying "every word I said is true, it's just what I left out...". In that respect, this article is not quite saying the full truth.

How do you prove a negative? How do u prove it doesn't cause fertility issues?

#BestBubby

Fri, Jun 11 2021, 11:48 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

From today's New York Times

Why Some Orthodox Jewish Women Won’t Get Vaccinated

Unsubstantiated rumors about the coronavirus vaccine and fertility have dissuaded some young women in New York’s Orthodox Jewish communities from getting the vaccine.

June 11, 2021, 5:00 a.m. ET

Miriam Leah Zisman at her home in the Midwood area of Brooklyn. Ms. Zisman, 23, has opted not to receive the Covid-19 vaccine while pregnant.Hilary Swift for The New York Times

In April, rumors began swirling in various New York City neighborhoods with large Orthodox Jewish communities about how the coronavirus vaccine could pose a serious threat to women’s fertility.

On WhatsApp groups, recordings of rabbis warning against what they said were the vaccine’s adverse effects proliferated quickly among the growing networks for the mothers of teenage girls who don’t want their daughters vaccinated.

Miriam Tewel, an 18-year-old from the Crown Heights neighborhood of Brooklyn, said the rumors influenced her decision not to go to Israel for a one-year stay at a seminary in Jerusalem because it required a vaccination.

“Anything that could compromise my future as a mother is not worth the risk,” said Ms. Tewel, 18, who is the youngest of 11 children.

Many of Ms. Tewel’s friend are consulting about the decision with their rabbis, who have a large say in what happens in the community and have been making recommendations on a case-by-case basis. But Ms. Tewel has already made up her mind.

There is no current evidence that any vaccines, including coronavirus vaccines, cause fertility problems, and people do not need to avoid becoming pregnant after receiving a coronavirus vaccine, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Many prominent mainstream Orthodox leaders in the New York region and in Israel, where the virus has all but disappeared, have advised their communities to get the coronavirus vaccine.

But in ultra-Orthodox circles in New York, where women marry at a younger age and birthrates dwarf those of the general population, the spread of unsubstantiated rumors about the coronavirus vaccine’s potential adverse effects on fertility and pregnancy have been particularly effective in dissuading young women from getting the vaccine, interviews with health officials and community members show. These neighborhoods have some of the lowest vaccination rates in New York City.

Misinformation campaigns in these communities during the pandemic led to a resistance to restrictions and guidelines that at times caused a surge of virus cases.

A concern for officials is that a resistance to the vaccine in Orthodox neighborhoods could play a part in endangering the city’s long-term prospects for a health and economic recovery.

While vaccine hesitancy has been seen in many Latino and Black neighborhoods in the city, the resistance in ultra-Orthodox neighborhoods may be more difficult to combat because of the insular nature of the community, according to community activists and health department officials.

“Fears about the vaccine and fertility have caught on in the Orthodox community like wildfire,” said Dr. Bat-Sheva Lerner Maslow, a reproductive endocrinologist and founding board member of Jewish Orthodox Women’s Medical Association, or JOWMA, a grass-roots group that has taken the lead on combating misinformation about the coronavirus vaccine circulating in Orthodox circles.

Esther Ita Holt, a 33-year-old Orthodox mother of three who is several months pregnant, said she was bullied on a WhatsApp group intended to provide support to Orthodox Jewish mothers when she posted a recently published study indicating that vaccines are safe.

One group member accused her of spreading rumors that could threaten the lives of pregnant women and infants. Ms. Holt, who said she already faces vaccine skepticism within her own immediate family, decided to leave the group.

Miriam Leah Zisman, a 23-year-old Orthodox sales associate who is expecting her first child, said the conversations in her community about the possible dangers of the vaccine discouraged her from getting vaccinated.

“I come from a home where we vaccinate,” said Ms. Zisman, who is from the Midwood area of Brooklyn. “We believe in science and medicine.” Still, when it comes to her pregnancy and future fertility, the unknowns about the vaccine loom too large, she said. “I’m going to wait it out.”

New York City will spend as much as $60 million, according to one estimate by health officials, on a vaccine outreach program to combat hesitancy and access issues. But in many Orthodox neighborhoods messages from respected rabbis resonate more.

In Israel, where coronavirus restrictions have ceased now that the majority of the population has been vaccinated, state officials confronted similar difficulties with the ultra-Orthodox community. However, representatives from within the community waged an effective counter-messaging campaign.

But those messages have not been as successful in New York.

In the ZIP code for Borough Park in Brooklyn, which has a large Orthodox community, 28.5 percent of the population is fully vaccinated, compared with a 45.7 percent rate for all city residents. In the ZIP code for South Williamsburg, where several leading Hasidic sects are centered, 35 percent of the population is fully vaccinated. In East Crown Heights, where the Chabad-Lubavitch Hasidic sect is headquartered, that number is 30.5 percent.

Patrick Gallahue, a spokesman for the city’s Department of Health, said the agency has been running ads in local Orthodox media, been working with community-based organizations to host additional pop-up vaccination sites and has partnered with trusted organizations like Hatzalah, an Orthodox volunteer-run ambulance corps, to educate community members.

Other organizations in the region have made similar efforts.

John Lyon, a spokesman for the Rockland County health department, said fertility has been the major issue of concern among ultra-Orthodox residents when it comes to receiving the coronavirus vaccine. Rockland County, home to 90,000 ultra-Orthodox Jews, was hit particularly hard by the virus last year.

Mr. Lyon said the department is “working through the delicate and personal process” of answering fertility-related questions by partnering with local health providers and sending envoys to community rabbis, who have the best chance of affecting community outcomes.

In April, the Jewish Orthodox Women’s Medical Association hosted three livestream webinars about the coronavirus vaccine aimed at Orthodox women, doulas, premarital counselors and ritual bath house or mikvah attendants, engaging a total of nearly 5,000 participants.

Recently, the group hosted a teleconference about the vaccine focused toward the Yiddish-speaking ultra-Orthodox population and a webinar for the mothers of adolescents who were particularly concerned about vaccinating their daughters.

“We’re using every method of communication we can to let members of our community know that the vaccine is safe,” said Dr. Miriam Knoll, a radiation oncologist and member of JOWMA’s coronavirus vaccine education task force.

“The idea that Orthodox Jews don’t vaccinate is just patently false,” Dr. Knoll added. “We absolutely do, and there are countless Orthodox rabbis who would say it is a religious obligation to vaccinate.”

From pamphlets and posters to a hotline and robocalls recorded in Yiddish — a method anti-vaccine activists within the community have also found particularly effective — the group is using the “machinery we already had in place after the measles crisis” to target the vaccine hesitant, said Dr. Knoll.

Dr. Miriam Knoll in her office at Montefiore Nyack Hospital.Hilary Swift for The New York Times
In the spring of 2019, aggressive anti-vaccination rhetoric contributed to the worst outbreak of measles in New York since 1992, with thousands of cases emerging in Orthodox neighborhoods in Brooklyn and Rockland County. Now, communication networks set in motion in 2019 to disseminate misinformation about the measles vaccine are being rebooted to dissuade community members from taking the coronavirus vaccine.

Rabbi Michoel Green, a Hasidic rabbi based in Massachusetts who was disowned from his movement in February for a series of aggressive social media posts railing against pandemic-related lockdowns and mask mandates, recorded a number of widely distributed robocalls warning ultra-Orthodox community members against receiving the coronavirus vaccine.

The voice messages — which Rabbi Green said he tweaked to cater to different ultra-Orthodox communities in Crown Heights, Borough Park and Williamsburg in Brooklyn and in Lakewood, N.J. — were forwarded to “thousands” of cellphone numbers previously collected by anti-vaccine advocates in 2019.

“When the rabbinical establishment starts to walk in lockstep with the government, that’s very concerning,” Rabbi Green said in an interview. A father of 12, Green said he “hopes and prays” that his eldest daughter does not get the shot, though he remains uncertain of what she will do.

Rabbi Green’s twin brother, Rabbi Daniel Green, a Hasidic rabbi who lives in Crown Heights, directs efforts to resist the vaccine in New York City. He recently stepped down from his teaching position at a local seminary for post-high school Hasidic women because the school hosted a clinic to administer the coronavirus vaccine earlier this month.

The Green brothers believe that Jewish law forbids someone to expose him or herself to an “experimental” vaccine, with those of childbearing age poised to lose the most.

Over the past few weeks, Rabbi Daniel Green, the father of 13, said he became particularly vigilant to warn his students, most of whom are single young women in their late teens and early 20s, against what he fears is the vaccine’s negative effect on fertility.

“I tell them it is especially dangerous for young people who want to have children,” he said, speaking between classes in which he instructs women in Halakha, the intricacies of Orthodox Jewish law.

The messages appear to have been at least somewhat effective.

Miriam Schwarzschild, a Brooklyn-based midwife who works with the ultra-Orthodox community, said several of her clients had been upset that she had gotten vaccinated.

“Many of them felt betrayed,” she said. “It’s taken me many years to build up trust within this community, and I think my choice to get the vaccine set me back. For many, the vaccine is a bridge too far.”

Fleetwood asks, "What in the article is factually untrue"? Here are some examples:

Unsubstantiated rumors about the coronavirus vaccine and fertility

It is ALSO "Unsubstantiated" that the coronavirus vaccine does NOT effect fertility!

The word "rumor" is used repeatedly in the article, which implies [false] rumor, but this
concern regarding fertility has NOT been proven false!

On the older vaccines, the inserts states "This vaccine has not been studied on its effects on
fertility and cancer" (paraphrased).

There is no current evidence that any vaccines, including coronavirus vaccines, cause fertility problems

And There is no current evidence that any vaccines, including coronavirus vaccines, do NOT cause fertility problems. And it says so on the Vaccine Inserts!!!

"Misinformation Campaigns"
"JOWMA, a grass-roots group that has taken the lead on combating misinformation about the coronavirus vaccine circulating in Orthodox circles."

Since it is not proven that vaccines, including the Covid Vaccine, do NOT effect fertility, it is a
LIE to call this claim "Misinformation".

The Green brothers believe that Jewish law forbids someone to expose him or herself to an “experimental” vaccine, with those of childbearing age poised to lose the most.

Why is the word experimental put in quotes, implying it is false. Clinical trials on the vaccine
don't end until 2023.

Miriam Leah Zisman at her home in the Midwood area of Brooklyn. Ms. Zisman, 23, has opted not to receive the Covid-19 vaccine while pregnant.

The article implies that Covid vaccine is safe for pregnant women - even though Covid vaccines, and ALL vaccines, are never tested on pregnant women to see if it safe! And this is stated on the inserts!

We’re using every method of communication we can to let members of our community know that the vaccine is safe,” said Dr. Miriam Knoll, a radiation oncologist and member of JOWMA’s coronavirus vaccine education task force.

There have been thousands of adverse effects following vaccination including DEATHS, heart problems, strokes, Bells Palsy, paralysis, etc. And nobody knows what the long-term effects can be! So to make a blanket statement that the vaccine is "safe"....

A concern for officials is that a resistance to the vaccine in Orthodox neighborhoods could play a part in endangering the city’s long-term prospects for a health and economic recovery.

Here is BLAMING THE JEWS for damaging the health and economic recovery!

Mommyg8

Fri, Jun 11 2021, 11:49 am

fleetwood wrote:

How do you prove a negative? How do u prove it doesn't cause fertility issues?

I'm surprised at this question.

You do appropriate studies, of course.

Or is this question a joke?

#BestBubby

Fri, Jun 11 2021, 11:50 am

fleetwood wrote:

How do you prove a negative? How do u prove it doesn't cause fertility issues?

With LONG-TERM studies comparing health outcomes of Vax vs UnVax.

You know, the Study the CDC refuses to do.

I think that animal studies on fertility might show faster results.

amother

Dimgray

Fri, Jun 11 2021, 11:51 am

fleetwood wrote:

How do you prove a negative? How do u prove it doesn't cause fertility issues?

What we do know is that there was a lot of miscarriages due to covid itself. So theres that. No vaccine has ever caused fertility issues, so probably this doesn't either. You can't prove it, but scientists can make educated assessments.

amother

Mayflower

Fri, Jun 11 2021, 11:51 am

fleetwood wrote:

I've never defended BLM and Ive never hated on Jews Your post is disgusting and I will be reporting it to the mods.

In other words, you dont have an argument and just dont want to hear what anyone else has to say. And the mods will go along with it and remove the post because you decide that its "offensive" when its not. Its ok, the one sided censorship on Imamother is not new, we all know that liberals get posts removed because they disagree with it, not because its offensive. It shows that I am right but you are too scared to admit it so you will censor it. Sad that imamother is going along with this nonsense and not allowing people to have a voice if its not the "right" voice. But keep removing posts (and not just you but this has been happening several times on imamother where posters had imamother remove posts that disagreed with them) and see if you can still get push people to comply with your black and white way of thinking about a vaccine that we know very little about. The more you censor the more we know that we are right about what is going on and stand up against it so thank you for that.

amother

Thistle

Fri, Jun 11 2021, 11:51 am

fleetwood wrote:

How do you prove a negative? How do u prove it doesn't cause fertility issues?

With long term studies with a control group. But they eliminated the control group.

fleetwood

Fri, Jun 11 2021, 11:52 am

amother [ Thistle ] wrote:

Masks were proven ineffective. Get the vaccine and you are immune. Everyone is entitled to their freedom to make their own health decisions.

Not going to argue about the masks,which are effective btw. But you cannot decide not to wear one when it effects me( before the vaxx..during the height of covid). Same with drunk driving or.infecting others with the measles instead of staying home. Going to a shul while knowingly infected harms my health! These are all examples of things you cannot do...Bec when you do them you effect my health! We should care about the health of those around us! Do you think you have freedom to eat a peanut if the kid next to you is allergic? I'm sure you would never do that

fleetwood

Fri, Jun 11 2021, 11:53 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Ok. Let's try to prove the negative. How can we do that?

amother

Dimgray

Fri, Jun 11 2021, 11:53 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Here is BLAMING THE JEWS for damaging the health and economic recovery!

Um. then stop damaging the health and economic recovery. The media reports what they say. They didnt say that the jews were damaging . I think the fact that they highlight organization that are trying to combat that is positive.

fleetwood

Fri, Jun 11 2021, 11:54 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Btw,by truth,I meant..that a large number of Orthodox women are not getting the vaccine. This is absolutely true..just read imamother!

Laiya

Fri, Jun 11 2021, 11:55 am

amother [ Dimgray ] wrote:

This is not an antigen based vaccine, unlike all other vacccines that are accepted as safe during pregnancy.

Crookshanks

Fri, Jun 11 2021, 11:56 am

fleetwood wrote:

That is correct. But we are talking about not taking the vaccine here, not about going to shul when sick with Covid. When I was sick, I stayed home for 2 weeks. We're not arguing about that here. You cannot conflate the issues and say that people who are not taking the vaccine are also coming to shul sick.

fleetwood

Fri, Jun 11 2021, 11:56 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

I'm surprised at this question.

You do appropriate studies, of course.

Or is this question a joke?

No,I'm serious..how can we prove it doesn't affect fertility. I guess we could have every vaccinated women attempt to get pregnant..but short of that?

Laiya

Fri, Jun 11 2021, 11:57 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Agree with this post. And would add, the article also ignores high levels of prior immunity in the frum community.

But who expects balanced reporting from the New York Times .

fleetwood

Fri, Jun 11 2021, 11:57 am

#BestBubby wrote:

With LONG-TERM studies comparing health outcomes of Vax vs UnVax.

You know, the Study the CDC refuses to do.

I think that animal studies on fertility might show faster results.

But the study will basically need to include millions who have to be actively trying to get pregnant...

amother

Poppy

Fri, Jun 11 2021, 11:58 am

amother [ Dimgray ] wrote:

This doesn't make sense. The numbers are down. Lowest ever. In every community in NY. Even the orthodox community that apparently doesn't vaccinate or mix with outsiders. This time last year the NYT was writing articles that the orthodox community might have herd immunity. Now the vaccine is out and previous infection is not a possible pathway to immunity. It's all a bunch of horse#(_(

fleetwood

Fri, Jun 11 2021, 11:59 am

Crookshanks wrote:

I was talking about during the pandemic. Giving examples of how you don't have freedom to do whatever you want Bec it effects others. That's the reason you stayed home.
I never compared that to vaccine. I was just answering the another who said her health her choice...but that's not true.

Laiya

Fri, Jun 11 2021, 12:00 pm

fleetwood wrote:

No,I'm serious..how can we prove it doesn't affect fertility. I guess we could have every vaccinated women attempt to get pregnant..but short of that?

Same way we demonstrate safety for any and all medications or vaccines that receive FDA approval. Fetal toxicity studies, developmental and reproductive toxicity studies, more extensive animal studies over a longer period of time, etc.