Hasidic Mother of 10 Becomes Doctor

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Purple2

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 1:24 am

theotherone1 wrote:

What kind of education did Ruchie Frier have? Chassidish?

You can’t compare medical school and law school.
I have a lot of friends from my right wing BY circles who went to law school, really not a huge deal for us. I only have a couple of friends who made it through medical school. I do have more friends who are doctors, but they’re BTs so again, not coming from a BY background.
Also Ruchie doesn’t have such a large family, and they weren’t babies when she went to school.
Medical school is way more competitive to get into as well.

mochamix18

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 3:42 am

This article gives a little more background
https://jewishstandard.timesof.....tive/
This woman sounds amazing abs I’m glad my little daughter is growing up with role models like her, Ruchie Frier, Beatie Deutch and Chanie Neuberger just to name a few.

PinkFridge

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 8:48 am

trixx wrote:

I'm not nitpicking, I'm trying to make sense of it. It's a big difference to start off with college credits.

Absolutely. And a pull for STEM and the opportunities. I still don't get why this makes this "so much lesser" of an achievement. (Quotes for how I'm perceiving some of the reactions.)

Mama Bear

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 10:05 am

BatyaEsther wrote:

Are you all the most jealous people? Why must you begrudge this woman her accomplishments?
I don’t care what kind of secular education and experiences she had before becoming frum, or what support she has. What she did is colossal.

Not sure why anyone here is negative.

No one is negating this woman's accomplishment -- it's amazing.
We're rolling our eyes at the article. It's over dramatized and misleading. From the title you'd think that Mama Bear who went to Satmar, became a doctor. wow!!!
A BT who already had a bachelor's degree when she got married, became a doctor? A lot less 'maaaaajor'. So it's the article that we're rolling our eyes at, not her accomplishment.

Mama Bear

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 10:06 am

Purple2 wrote:

Excatly. It's a major deal to become a lawyer, but it's still doable. If you're smart and you apply yoursef it's doable no matter your background. A doctor is in a completely different league.

Mama Bear

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 10:30 am

mochamix18 wrote:

I am taking back everything I said and deleting it, bc there's a very slight chance that this is a case of mistaken identity. This family's story is 100% identical to someone I know, but when I asked around I was told that they don't have 10 children, and that person did not recognize Mrs. Friedman. It makes very little sense that 2 families can have the exact same story, but just for the small chance that I am mistaken I deleted everything I wrote. If someone quoted me, I apologize for being unable to edit it, please ignore. The last thing I want to do is hurt people - esp if it's the wrong people!!!

Last edited by Mama Bear on Mon, Jun 28 2021, 5:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

Gold3

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 10:35 am

Mama Bear wrote:

Yes, this confirmed for me that I know her married daughter. They became chasidish in Tucson when they met the Satmar people who go there in the winter. Very cool.

So they're going to move to Florida for 3 years so she can do her residency. I guess now that there are plenty of chasidim in Florida hopefully her kids will be okay. Luckily it's mostly girls, they do better in far flung places.

Hatzlocha to her!

For frum Jews, Florida is practically part of the tri-state area right now. Not exactly far-flung.

Mama Bear

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 10:38 am

Gold3 wrote:

For frum Jews, Florida is practically part of the tri-state area right now. Not exactly far-flung.

for chasidishe boys with curled payos, unless theyre literally in miami beach or tampa, they won't have their framework.

monkeymamma

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 11:27 am

PinkFridge wrote:

Absolutely. And a pull for STEM and the opportunities. I still don't get why this makes this "so much lesser" of an achievement. (Quotes for how I'm perceiving some of the reactions.)

I think its hard for people to understand that if you come from an insular community where you dont even graduate high school then its not the same thing as someone who grew up in the secular world, attended a prestigious college, had a prestigious fellowship then chose to become frum as an adult. That education you got in the secular world comes with you even if you change your lifestyle and become frum. So if you compare it to her medical school classmates who are mostly young, single and without kids then yes, its a great achievement that she graduated from medical school with a big family (although her older stepkids and husband helped out so she wasnt exactly taking care of 10 kids under the age of 10 on her own).
But if you compare it to someone who grew up in Satmar and went to Satmar school then its not comparable because a Satmar girl would first have to get her GED and then figure out how to apply to college and then figure out how to navigate that world (from dealing with male professors to having to learn how to study and write papers appropriate or other challenges they may encounter that someone from the secular world wouldnt have these issues).
How many satmar girls do you know who can call their NIH research supervisors and ask to do research in a different state? How many satmar girls do you think would be able to just get up and move away from family and friends to do research or even a residency for a year or three?

So why is it a chiddush that someone who grew up secular, went to the College of William and Mary (a very prestigious, rigorous secular college) and did a NIH fellowship also graduated from medical school? And if you say that its because she chose to become chasidish as an adult remember that the secular education that she had beforehand stayed with her and the fact that she was driving before she became frum is also an advantage where she didnt have to learn how to do that either (something that is scary for many satmar women who do not grow up driving).

The irksome thing about this article is that there are so many satmar women who struggle to get an education (and some have killed themselves because of the struggle) yet here we have a woman who presents herself as chasidish saying, see its not that difficult, if I can do it then so can you. But it disregards the actual struggles that a satmar woman would have in having to start from scratch (in terms of getting a ged and starting college without any credits whatsoever) and navigating a world that a BT is already familiar with. Its almost like a satmar women is being blamed for not being able to do the same thing that this BT woman can do when its not really the fault of the satmar woman that her school didnt provide the rigorous academic education that this BT woman received in her secular schools. Why put that extra burden on satmar women instead of acknowledging that there would be additional struggles if she chooses to become a doctor (other than just having a large family)?

chestnut

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 11:41 am

Mama Bear wrote:

They're Satmar now? Didn't they live in CH?

trixx

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 11:59 am

monkeymamma wrote:

You forgot the part where a satmar girl can barely *write an essay, let alone a research paper.

zaq

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 12:53 pm

pause wrote:

She got married in 2008 and already has 10 kids? Wow! (OK, there's a set of twins there, but still...) I wonder if her DH's two kids are counted in the 10 total.

But what's up with the moving from CH to Monsey to Florida?

Two of the ten were her husband's from a previous marriage, and two were twins, so she had 7 pregnancies in 13 years--about par for the course for a Chassidish woman, wouldn't you say?

bruriyah

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 1:11 pm

Clearly this woman is amazing and her accomplishments speak for themselves. Nothing I will say is trying to diminish that.

But let's not kid ourselves . Like many posters here said, her background is not chassidish and this story does not indicate that "any chassidish girl can go to medical school". It's brutal to get there from an insular backgound. I know 3 women and 1 man who went to medical school from very insular backgrounds (chassidish, no high school diploma) All were incredibly smart and committed and still they struggled immensely. None of these 4 are frum today. I wonder why...

-signed, MD from right-wing bais yaakov background

PS, if you're coming from an insular background and want to go to medical school, feel free to DM me.

Last edited by bruriyah on Mon, Jun 28 2021, 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

bruriyah

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 1:15 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

The title is a wee bit misleading. Someone who grew up secular and already has a degree and then became chasidish.... , is a huge difference from someone who was born and bred in Yiddish speaking schools and went on to become a doctor. I'm still waiting to see that happening :-D.

Still an amazing accomplishment!!

It happens, Well, I've seen it happen with 4 ppl (3 women, 1 man) , but none of them are frum today.

chanchy123

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 1:17 pm

mom2mysouls wrote:

Me too - agree with them.

I also wonder why when a secular woman marries chassidish, she is referred to a hassidic woman. But when a chassidish woman marries a secular guy, she is not referred to as secular... Smile

But she wasn’t secular when she married a chossid- she was a BT and chose to become chassidish and marry a chassidish man.
Anyone else wonder about her wearing a wig as the first step of becoming frum before marriage? It’s almost s stupid as living a life revolving around speaking Yiddish.
It’s one of those cases where you don’t know if the journalist is clueless or the piece is just very poorly written.

Amarante

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 1:32 pm

I find the "discussion' fascinating because to me it illustrates that everything will have some detractors.

This was an amazing accomplishment for any mother with children whatever her background.

Then one adds to it that her doing medical school objectively required her to get dispensations because it violated community mores. Some people have commented that her rabbi said it was OK - those were her words because she had to get his okay.

For those who are saying that this is not typical because the level of Chassidic education even for girls is so bad that they would require a GED - would you be happier if there was an article deploring the lack of opportunity because of poor schools in the community?

mochamix18

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 1:32 pm

chanchy123 wrote:

I also wonderful about both of those points but didn’t want to “nit pick”. I’m going to go with clueless journalist…

dancingqueen

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 1:49 pm

monkeymamma wrote:

Guys. Chill. This is an overwhelmingly positive human interest story in the NYT about chassidim, specifically a very impressive chassidish woman and all people are doing is complaining. LOL

qwerty4

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 1:53 pm

bruriyah wrote:

It happens, Well, I've seen it happen with 4 ppl (3 women, 1 man) , but none of them are frum today.

I know of a couple of men from Kiryas Joel that are on their path to become an MD. All stayed in the community.

chanchy123

Mon, Jun 28 2021, 1:55 pm

Amarante wrote:

I have to agree with Mama Bear and the others here. This woman is very much deserving of all accolades, it’s even worth a magazine piece (that’s the term we use in a Hebrew not sure if it translates into English in this context). She’s inspiring and has a very interesting life story. It would be a great story if they presented it accurately.
However, the way the story is written they sort of try to make you believe that she is representative of her community, while she is not.
Because we understand the nuances, we know the mitigating circumstances here, in a way it makes for a better story to us, but to the casual reader it lacks a lot of context.
Heck I’m not even part of that community and I do know several frum doctors with many children. It is pretty common in my community for women to go to college including medical school while you’re raising small kids - still ten (or even if you only count the younger biological children) including a set of twins and a baby is very impressive - it just doesn’t fit in the neat little package the NYT was selling.

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