My daughter's first job post school - what to do with her $?

amother

DarkRed

Sun, Jul 04 2021, 2:42 pm

keym wrote:

But what happens if a new couple decides they want to do something that their parents don't agree to pay for?
Vacation to Miami? Move to Detroit? Take 2 weeks vacation and do nothing? Buy a shaitel according to a standard that the parents don't hold of but the young couple's Rav holds of? Get a license and buy a car?
The young couple literally walks away from the chuppah without a penny to their name unless their parents give (and the parents have to want to give)?

The things you mentioned aren't generally done but let's pretend they are....
Do they need to happen right away?
After the wedding her money goes to her husband so they can save, especially if the parents are shtitzing them but not all can afford that.
Some people have drusha geshank money.
Other people do get money gifted back from their parents. Everyone is different.
What happens when you pay for a wedding and have no savings left either? I don't see the difference here.

amother

Hosta

Sun, Jul 04 2021, 2:48 pm

keym wrote:

Yes and it is seriously dysfunctional on so many levels.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Jul 04 2021, 2:56 pm

amother [ DarkRed ] wrote:

The things you mentioned aren't generally done but let's pretend they are....
After the wedding her money goes to her husband so they can save, especially if the parents are shtitzing them but not all can afford that.
Some people have drusha geshank money.
Other people do get money gifted back from their parents. Everyone is different.
What happens when you pay for a wedding and have no savings left either? I don't see the difference here.

You never did respond to the question posted previously, what if a girl doesn't marry right away? How does it work when she's 22 or 23 and needs (or just wants) money to buy herself something? Does she get an allowance? Does she need permission?
At what point does this lead to girls deciding to move out of their parents' home because they can't handle feeling or being treated like a little kid when they are adults? I don't see that going over so well in such a strict community, either. I'd assume the parents would be pretty unhappy if their girls move out to gain independence.
I think what you are describing works fine when the girl is 18 or 19 and gets engaged fairly young. But over that age, I see things starting to fall apart.

amother

DarkRed

Sun, Jul 04 2021, 2:58 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

You never did respond to the question posted previously, what if a girl doesn't marry right away? How does it work when she's 22 or 23 and needs money to buy herself something? Does she get an allowance? Does she need permission?
At what point does this lead to girls deciding to move out of their parents' home because they can't handle feeling or being treated like a little kid when they are adults? I don't see that going over so well in such a strict community, either. I'd assume the parents would be pretty unhappy if their girls move out to gain independence.
I think what you are describing works fine when the girl is 18 or 19 and gets engaged fairly young. But over that age, I see things starting to fall apart.

Sorry I wasn't ignoring, I didn't respond because the question isn't relevant. Most girls are married by those ages. They wouldn't move out of their parents houses. In terms of buying things, each family is different so I can't comment, some getting spending money same way they bought when they were 16. It's just not applicable. Maybe an older girl would ask to keep her paycheck and discuss it. I really don't know since it was BH not applicable. Sorry!

amother

Lightyellow

Sun, Jul 04 2021, 3:19 pm

simba wrote:

Its dysfunctional cause it doesn't line up with your word view?

It actually sounds functional. Today we mostly live in a time of prosperity. We want more and better for our children. Maybe even coddle them to a fault..the snowflakes, cancel culture, self absorbed youth come from somewhere.

I was not raised like this but that doesn't mean I can't see it as a valid option. Especially when It may even have halachic backing.

Why are we all so close minded when veering right but when people announce on here the absolute craziest things we salute their bravado?

And to whomever compared this to rape, you should think many times before inflicting pain on the many rape victims here.

Why is marrying off a couple with 0$ of savings a valid option or otherwise they are cuddled? Especially when they WORKED for that money.
Do you realize that is setting them up to struggle just like the parents did?
There is no community that has this mindset as a whole. That's the ridiculous part of this.
Very Chassidishe family, one grandfather kept the money 20-30 years ago, the other wouldn't dream of it.
Self serving is the reason, Religion is always the excuse.

And about your self righteous comment about rape, you have no idea if I went through anything like that myself.
In any event you totally missed my point.
Which was that many negative things are allowed according to halachah. That doesn't mean that it should be done.

Last edited by amother on Tue, Dec 21 2021, 8:46 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Lightyellow

Sun, Jul 04 2021, 3:21 pm

amother [ DarkRed ] wrote:

This is not the parents cheshbon to make.

Last edited by amother on Tue, Dec 21 2021, 8:45 am; edited 1 time in total

small bean

Sun, Jul 04 2021, 3:48 pm

I think it's cultural where the parents sort of feel like they own/control the kids until marriage.

I think it's also cultural the way I grew up and raise my kids. We don't own or control them. We guide them, we provide for them and encourage them. We do not take responsibility for them. We allow them more independence to explore, make bad decisions etc

I see it a lot on imamother, things I don't understand but I often feel like there is a cultural difference in the way we relate to our children.

amother

Acacia

Sun, Jul 04 2021, 4:01 pm

It should be her own money! If u truly don't ahev much than have her begin to pay for some of her own clothes etc to offset your household income- but that would still make her feel like it is her own instead of you taking it from her. Also saving to help pay for seminary or wedding expenses or college education or a used car or fancier dating clothes is a way to offset your household expenses bc u would otherwise be paying for those- but it has a different feel than just taking her money.

Even if she is saving for her wedding or seminary or personal expenses, I would encourage u to have her be allowed to use a small amount as extra spending money so it doesn't feel like she so working for nothing. We put it in our children's account and since we can afford to pay for weddings etc but it will be for extras like if they want new furniture when married instead of used, or want to put it towards a car into marriage or fancier upgrades of sheitels or aspects of wedding costs than we did for others . If they don't use it for that they will have it going into a marriage towards a car or vacation or even a down payment or whatever else they choose that we wouldn't be able to provide.

imanotmommy

Sun, Jul 04 2021, 4:29 pm

If you desperately need the money, and can't see how to manage without it, ask a rav if, how long, and how much you should take from her salary.
In most situations, even if it would be really useful to have her income to spend, and even if it's perfectly permitted, it's not really the best thing for HER. You need to have money in order to learn to use it responsibly. Based on her age and income, there should be some things (ranging from activities with friends to clothes) that she should be responsible for. Anything that is a direct expense for something for her (not rent, electricity, or the family's grocery bill-but yes if she wants a particular brand of yogurt, or basically anything you wouldn't buy "anyway") but... it shouldn't be too much that she can't have any left to save.
Basically, it isn't about who technically/halachically owns the money. It's about her growing up, taking responsibility, and learning so many useful things for the future. (Plus hopefully saving money for her future.) Yes, it "works" for many people/communities to have a different system, but that doesn't mean it is best for the kid! Just like it may be legal to stop supporting your kid in any way at age 18, and some people may choose that route, but that doesn't mean it's the best for your or your child.

Of course be upfront! Tell her if you expect her to save up for anything more than a minimal wedding, (ETA that I mean you'd pay for only minimal expenses, and if she wants more then she can cover it) for home expenses, etc.
The only situation in which I support taking money from kids for "rent" is when it is for their own good-irrelevant of the parents' financial situation. For example, if the "child" is older, not taking responsibility for anything, doesn't help out at home, spends all day playing video games, then telling them that they need to pay $X a month is a way of forcing them to get off the couch. In no way would this apply to a teenager, the $X would be less than the actual cost of having the kid there, and the parents would have to be open/supportive of the option of their child choosing to move out. (An exception would be if the home would not be available without the child's rent money, in which case I don't consider myself qualified to even have an opinion on the right thing to do.)

In summary, I am far from calling it dysfunctional to take your child's paycheck while you pay all their expenses, although I never did or plan to do this. However, that doesn't make it the best option.

banana123

Sun, Jul 04 2021, 4:51 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

My 17.5 year old daughter started her first office job at minimum wage.
What do we do with her money?
Deposit in her own account?
Deposit in our account?

We are not well off financially.
We both work but we have $70,000 debt.
My husband is limited in what he can do
He earns $40,000 yearly
I earn a bit more on the year
We obviously have no savings.

I'd love to hear what you do with your daughter who is living at home
paycheck/what you did when you were that age

My parents used the money to cover their own bills.
That was their reality.
I also didn't get married with any money as the
bit of chasuna money that came in from my side
of the family went to pay off the wedding. The rest
I paid off with my summer job after my chasuna

She earned it, she keeps it.

Sunny Days

Sun, Jul 04 2021, 5:52 pm

imanotmommy wrote:

I think after all these pages this is most down to earth understanding response. I hope op skips through all the rest and reads just this.

amother

Ebony

Sun, Jul 04 2021, 6:58 pm

watergirl wrote:

Are we cherry picking what halachos to keep and which not to?

I thought the point of halacha is to resolve an issue when there is a conflict. So if two parties agree to do things in a way that works for both of them, then there's no need to consult halacha. But if there is a dispute between the two of them, they turn to halachic authorities to see how to proceed/rule.
I didn't think halacha is a prescription for how everyone should live their lives.
We live our lives as we see fit, and when there's a dispute, we turn to halachic authorities.
Am I mistaken?

amother

Ebony

Sun, Jul 04 2021, 7:08 pm

SafeAtLast wrote:

You can borrow the money from your daughter if she agrees.
A better idea would be to borrow from a friend or gemach though.

If your daughter wanted to pay rent with her money, she may as well find her own apartment and have her full independence.

B"h I ended up calling a lawyer who helped us get ''covid rental relief''. And dh ended up taking a loan from a gemach.

If dd wanted to live on her own, she could. But she wants to stay and there's no reason to push her out just because she has the money to pay her own rent.

amother

DarkRed

Sun, Jul 04 2021, 7:53 pm

amother [ Ebony ] wrote:

Yes, you're mistaken. Halacha is not optional and not there for disputes. Halacha is to be followed. There are different types of mitzvos and a person can be mevater something like the father saying he allows his daughter to keep the money, but a person can't decide "halacha does not apply to me" chv and move on. Hilchos shabbos are the halachos applicable to shabbos, hilchos brochos to brochos, hilchos lashon hara to lashon hara. And so on and so forth. Shulchan urech would be a good place for you to begin learning about all of the halachos.

simba

Sun, Jul 04 2021, 8:00 pm

amother [ Ebony ] wrote:

Yes. You are mistaken.