Teenage son wants to hang out with girls

amother

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 3:18 pm

elisheva25 wrote:

I think it’s extreme to say “he is throwing it away “.
More like he is acting like a teenager now, and you have to figuire out the best way to parent him
Doesn’t sound like it has anything to do w/you personally or frumkeit.

Thank you and everyone. I feel real sisterhood here!
I meant to say throwing away our level of yideshkait. And that is what my early teen daughter is embarrassed about, her need to fit in with her friends is very strong now... But we are definitely addressing her somewhat intolerance toward her brother.

amother

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 3:30 pm

DrMom wrote:

- Having a "no mixed sxes in the bedroom" rule is pretty standard in many households, including many secular households. It would not be at all unreasonable to insist om this.

- Why is your DD "petrified" if her own brother is in the living room? Is she petrified of her brother or of his friends? Why? Can you explain? It sounds like it is her meshugas and not something that should limit her brother's behavior.

- What do you mean your son "has his own entrance to his space"? Do you mean a private entrance to his bedroom?

You sound like you are afraid to parent. There is nothing wrong with laying down reasonable rules and expecting your kids to abide by them. He's a teenager, he may very well push boundaries, but you need to be clear about your expectations.

I'm all for reasonable rules. If I trust him and he tells me who when how he hangs out with, I feel unreasonable to implement 'no room' rule. His friends, all boys up until this point, love being at his private space. It will be a punishment to take it away now. But before I used to know all the boys and their parents, now not so much. I know which school the girls go to, that's it.... You think I should ask him for names, introduce myself to parents?

amother

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 3:36 pm

amother [ Brass ] wrote:

Op I totally hear you
Btdt
Absolutely set the rules for everyone in your house
Absolutely take your daughter and everyone’s comfort level into consideration
Everyone knew definitely no opposite gender in bedrooms (had this rule growing up “secular” too)
As for common space think what works for your family and make it the house rule for everyone
Sounds like your son is oldest so it makes sense that you have to add new rules as your family gets older
So some kids may meet up at someone else’s house or public place this is still better and you must maintain parental authority in your home
I would discharge the issues as much as possible and tell everyone these are the home rules for everyone and make an effort to stay in the present as much as possible to maintain clarity over what works now
Hugs and hatzlocha

Thank you, I like your advices. Just need to figure out what reasonable rules are... Also I'm still in doubts, in my mind making rules around this somehow makes it more legitimate... Where what I really want to convey is absolutely NO ... Have some work to do

amother

Petunia

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 3:42 pm

first let me say that your son going more "modern" than you and your family does not mean that hes throwing anything away or on a lower spiritual level.

I grew up in a yeshivish family and when I was a teenager started going more to the left, like hanging out with boys. My mother handled the whole situation amazingly, I should add. At the beginning it was kind of an adjustment, but let me just give some advice based on my experience (and the experiences of my friends too)

1. Accept and support it. He is your son and he is going through a very normal phase. If you want him to end up on the right track, this is very important. My friends whose parents could not accept the things they were doing, which were harmless, ended up just rebelling and becoming a lot more extreme and doing things much more harmful than I did. My friends, like me, who had a safe space to explore these things with the love and support from our parents, never rebelled and never got mixed up with much worse things. This is most likely a phase that will eventually pass, but its also possible that he just doesnt want to be on the same level as you, which is fine. he needs the freedom to discover himself and find where hes comfortable, and then work on growing and becoming better. if you try to force it, it will backfire and there wont be a genuine connection for him. And being more MO does not make him less of a jew

2. Create rules, for him to be safe but not for him to be oppressed. Rules that any modern family would have. For example: No girls in the bedroom with the door closed. This is really basic and most families have this one. And never assume a girl is "just a friend" and you have nothing to worry about.

3. Talk to him- figure out beforehand where your lines are and what rules to implement, and then talk to him to let him know that you will support his choices and allow him to talk to or hang out with girls. Tell him that if he is going to date or have a girlfriend, he needs to let you know (and maybe even that youd like to meet her). Talk to him about safety, the benefits or waiting until marriage, and the risks of not. Teenagers are teenagers and im not saying he will go all the way, but it is a possibility and he needs to be prepared, and know how to be safe.

amother

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 3:58 pm

amother [ Petunia ] wrote:

Thank you for taking the time to share!
I believe I am able to make a shift in my mentality that this is a phase and acceptable, but before, in all seriousness, I need to find him a new school. I think very highly of his school principal and not sure can participate in going behind his back and breaking school rules...

amother

Honeysuckle

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 4:08 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'm missing something. What school rules is he breaking?
Also, no girls in your bedroom with door closed is a very standard rule. A parent who thinks that nothing will go on if the door is closed is inexcusably naive.

Introducing his friends to you when they visit for the first time is basic courtesy which should be exhibited by EVERY member of the family. It's your home and you have a right to know who's being admitted to it. You don't need to introduce yourself to their parents; this is not a kindergarten play date.

Chayalle

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 4:12 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You worked to attain your level of yiddishkeit, but he did not. He has a life to live, and a journey to take, in order to make it his own. He's not throwing your level away, because it's not his.

I have a relative that went thru a difficult phase with their teen. I know that they got advice and support from R' Shmuel Gluck of Areivim (Monsey). Just posting in case you find it helpful.

amother

Cerise

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 4:20 pm

amother [ Snowdrop ] wrote:

Ouch. If you are a BT I would assume you have raised your children to not be judgemental of others and their hashkafa. Your daughter being embarrassed needs to be addressed by you and your DH. My brother went OTD, tattoos everything. I was never embarrassed of him when he came home and I was home.

Not fair, this isn't a realistic post. Of course her DD is embarrassed for her friends to see her brother with girlfriends, if she's in yeshivish circles. And yes, her friends will be uncomfortable hanging around while they are there too.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 8:01 pm

I started the "no closing the door" rule when DD was 7. She had a male friend from down the block who was 6, and a BFF girl friend, and they would all play together.

At one point they went into the bedroom and closed the door. I noticed immediately, and opened it. I didn't make a big deal, I just told them that it was a safety measure, and that because I was the grown up in charge, I need to always know what's going on.

When you establish rules like that very early on, it's much easier for kids to accept that rule, and not fight about it.

(That boy was the only one who has ever been in her room, and none since. DD understands yichud, but to not embarrass her friends, she just tells them "It's mom's rule." )

amother

Cyan

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 8:34 pm

amother [ Snowdrop ] wrote:

I think it’s normal for teenage girls to care what their friends see in their home.
No reason to turn the sister into a victim to protect the brother.
She also has right to be comfortable in her home.

amother

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 8:46 pm

amother [ Honeysuckle ] wrote:

School rule is no different genders intermingling.
The principle is on a high alert.
Thank you, both of your points are valid, taking with my dh before speaking with the son.

My other big concern is that we also have a preteen son. How will he be influenced by us bending our family hashkafah for his brother...

amother

Poinsettia

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 11:39 pm

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DrMom

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:15 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

What do you mean the principal is on "high alert"?

Do you mean he was specifically notified about your son? Or that in general the school is very concerned about boys and girls socializing?

Perhaps this is just a hashkafic difference, but this sounds like a bit of a controlling and rigid environment, to be honest. I can see how it would inadvertently foster rebelliousness.

Is there any possibility that your efforts to become a BT have become a bit draconian? (I hope that did not sound disrespectful.)

amother

Darkblue

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:56 am

There's a lot of good advice here.

Just a few points:
* Teenagers need to separate from their parents. It's a healthy stage of development. Better now than when he's married with kids.
* A rebellious yeshivish kid isn't MO, he's a rebellious yeshivish kid. Nothing in your post suggests that he's changed camps philosophically.
* As baalei teshuva know, parents need to respect where their children are religiously. You won't always be in the same place.
* Your son's behavior isn't a reflection of you.

Hang in there.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 5:02 am

DrMom wrote:

I understand OP. DD's school was like this. If you were seen outside of school talking to a boy, eating in a non kosher restaurant, or wearing pants, you got reported to the principal immediately. We were living in a small town, and you never knew if a teacher or nosy parent would see you and call it in. You were expected to toe the line 24/7, no exceptions. It felt a little like the Stasi were always watching you.

"Comrade, you must comply for the good of the collective!"