Why do people think

amother

Pear

Sun, Sep 05 2021, 1:22 pm

amother [ Mimosa ] wrote:

Why is feeding animals assur on Yom Tov? Which of the 39 melachos is it part of?

Not sure which but its explicitly forbidden by chazel. In the days when we had pets like farm animals were allowed to feed our own pets because they rely on us for food but not wild animals who can fend for themselves.

esuss

Sun, Sep 05 2021, 1:29 pm

amother [ Mimosa ] wrote:

Why is feeding animals assur on Yom Tov? Which of the 39 melachos is it part of?

I am not sure which of the melachos it is. But it is definitely assur to feed animals on Shabbos or yom tov unless they are your pet or they are your farm animals. Then it is a mitzvah to feed them. Based on this it would be assur to feed ducks/fish by tashlich if you go on Rosh Hashana.
I purposely do not allow my kids to feed the ducks/fish even when we went during the week so as not to confuse them.

amother

Wed, Sep 08 2021, 10:20 pm

amother [ Molasses ] wrote:

This. As hakoras hatov for the fish for “taking” our aveiros. It’s symbolic obviously, but it’s a minhag.
The main part is the davening and the teshuva, not the bread part.

Perchance you are confusing this with feeding the birds on Shabbos Shira as hakaras Hatov for eating up the mann that Dasan and Aviram scattered in the midbar?

amother

Azure

Wed, Sep 08 2021, 10:23 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

The question is were you taught that it is actually part of the ceremony, or was it just a fun thing to do once you were going to a body of water?

We were taught that some people throw bread as a symbol of getting rid of sins.
At home there was never anyone to take us to tashlich, so we did it at the running kitchen sink (always at the last minute on hoshana rabba 🙃). My mom taught us that this was just as good as other running water. And we never threw bread in the sink. Laugh

-BY home with some chassidish minhagim.

amother

Wed, Sep 08 2021, 10:48 pm

amother [ Azure ] wrote:

-BY home with some chassidish minhagim.

Thanks..I would love to know if this is brought down in any sefer, chassidish or otherwise.
We are all aware of certain mistaken ideas that creep into our practices. They become so widespread that people think they have a real mesora.
My question is if the bread thing is one of those mistakes. I have only seen the bread thing mentioned in non-religious descriptions of Tashlich, while seeing many orthodox summaries point out that it's assur.

tigerwife

Wed, Sep 08 2021, 10:57 pm

Pretty sure it is symbolic (maybe as chinuch for the kids). We never did tashlich on RH so the issur of feeding animals wasn’t an issue.
I don’t think anyone believes that their tashlich isn’t complete if they don’t feed the ducks. The adults don’t throw bread; more like the mothers demonstrate to their little kids who are too young to daven that we are trying to “throw away our aveiros”.

amother

Purple

Wed, Sep 08 2021, 11:54 pm

My parents taught us that it is done by some people out of ignorance, but that you’re not supposed to. Last year when I went to the lake there was actually a bag of rye bread floating in the water. Like an actual plastic bag. What a Chillul Hashem.

Ema of 5

Thu, Sep 09 2021, 12:06 am

Elfrida wrote:

Taslich can be done until Yom Kippur, and some hold until Hoshanah Rabba. There are a number of weekdays when one can throw in bread.

We always learnt that it was the accumulated gunk from the bottom of ones pockets that gets thrown away, symbolizing the accumulated gunk (sins) in ones life. Depending on what one keeps in their pockets, that may include a few breadcrumbs.

Actually, you can do tashlich until hashana raba.

Ema of 5

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 12:25 am

We took our kids to say tashlich yesterday. We did t throw bread, but I told my 5 year old to take her aveiros and throw them so so so far away, as far as she could.
I honestly don’t know anyone who thinks tashlich is about the bread, it’s just symbolism.

amother

Junglegreen

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 12:49 am

I'm from Europe, from a community that was barely frum, maybe traditional. At least some people did have that minhag of throwing bread, somehow transmitted from their ancestors, I suppose.

nchr

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 12:53 am

Our minhag is women and children don't say tashlich, so I don't associate it with anything. I know many women and children who do but I don't know about bread.

amother

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 12:55 am

amother [ Junglegreen ] wrote:

I'm from Europe, from a community that was barely frum, maybe traditional. At least some people did have that minhag of throwing bread, somehow transmitted from their ancestors, I suppose.

That was kind of my point.
I think the only place you see this is by people who are barely frum or conservative/reform websites.
My assumption is that those in our (frum) community who do it-those who think its an essential part of Tashlich - do it in error, since there is no mention of this in the sefarim.

amother

Lemon

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 12:56 am

amother [ Purple ] wrote:

The wind might have blown it into the water.

greenteam

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 1:11 am

This solves the questions of feeding animals on yom tov as well as throwing bread by tashlich.
From halachapedia
it is Assur to feed wild animals on shabbos and yom tov - see Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 87:18, Magen Avraham 583:5, Mishna Brurah 324:31, Mateh Efrayim 598:11. See Aruch Hashulchan O.C. 324:3 for a possible defense of this minhag, that we're thanking them for singing at Shirat Hayam. Magen Avraham says the same is true of the minhag to throw bread crumbs to the fish during Tashlich

amother

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 1:45 am

nchr wrote:

Our minhag is women and children don't say tashlich, so I don't associate it with anything. I know many women and children who do but I don't know about bread.

Is it for tznius reasons?

amother

Lemon

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 1:46 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Is it for tznius reasons?

What does it have to do with tzenuis?
The husband/father has in mind his wife and kids.

nchr

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 6:36 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Is it for tznius reasons?

No. If it was tznius, we could just say it by a pipe or the sink, which I have heard some people are doing, even men.

We hold women and children are not mechiyev in tashlich and it is a minhag of am huraztes for them to do so (was told this is mentioned in shulchan urech too but don't know more details). But obviously many people do say so I'm not judging, just saying our minhag.

imasinger

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 6:46 am

This article offers a nice summary of the history.

It looks as if the temptation to feed the fish is debated as far back as the practice of davening at the water.

https://jewishaction.com/relig.....lich/

FranticFrummie

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 6:57 am

nchr wrote:

What do widows and orphans do, if they don't have a man around to keep them in mind?

nchr

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 9:36 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

What do widows and orphans do, if they don't have a man around to keep them in mind?

Our minhag is women and children don't say it. It doesn't have to do with a man saying it instead.