Study shows vaccination and masking don’t work to stop Covid

southernbubby

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 2:57 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

The therapeutics in question are only effective when administered immediately following the onset of symptoms. Doctors are not prescribing Ivermectin, HCQ or similar early treatments to treat Covid because warnings have been issued against them by the WHO.

Apparently ivermectin is effective days later. I think that early intervention is not as necessary with ivermectin but nothing works 100% of the time.

Amarante

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 2:58 pm

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

No, this is incorrect. Places where vaccination rates are higher also have higher cases and deaths than the same season last year.

Maybe there are confounding factors. But the rates are higher in the more highly vaccinated regions.

This is completely incorrect. There is a strong correlation between areas in which there is high vaccination rates plus still some mandated stuff like mask requirements. In California the per capita rate is the lower in the country ajd esoecisoou marked in San Francisco which has high vaccination rates. Infection increases in California counties with lower vaccination rates.

Those states with the highest current infection rates are where vaccination rates per capita are lowest.

amother

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 3:01 pm

Amarante wrote:

Why are Israeli imamothers so much more reasonable and less suspicious of public health measures than those in the USA?

I just don’t understand why the issue is so polarized in the US because discounting the current best public health advice would need one to believe that every country in the world is somehow involved in a conspiracy.

It is most likely because the health care system in Israel is socialized medicine. In such a system, citizens are not really at liberty to find a doctor of their choosing the way they are able to in the US. True, Ivermectin and HCQ aren’t allowed to be prescribed In the US to treat Covid, but they are allowed to treat other conditions. If a patient really wanted to get Ivermectin or HCQ in the US to treat Covid, even as a prophylactic, they have the option to find a doctor that would be willing to prescribe it to them, whereas in Israel they would not be able to.

It’s sad because so many people are dying unnecessarily in Israel. There are many communities in the US with tens of thousands of unvaccinated people who aren’t being hospitalized or dying because they can get early access to life saving treatments, unlike in Israel.

DrMom

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 3:02 pm

amother [ Camellia ] wrote:

I have seen numerous places that anyone who isn't two weeks past the second is counted as unvaccinated. They do not have a category for in middle of vaccinating.

This is completely incorrect.

ALL the official Min of Health data is split up into unvaxed/vaxed with 2 jabs/vaxed with 2 jabs + booster.

I am wondering if you live here or if you live in chu"l. Most local news articles about covid here are very careful to distinguish between these groups. Certainly the official data is very careful to analyze those categories separately. I find the decisions here to be largely data-based and the data to be quite well-maintained.

SixOfWands

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 3:23 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

FAKE. UNTRUE. LIES.

There is no federal law preventing prescribing these ineffective medications for covid.

Early in the pandemic, NY prevented Rx of HCQ off label. That mandate expired in July 2020, more than a year ago. There may be a few other states with mandates.

Nothing has ever limited Rx of ivermectin. The issue is that on-label use is a single dose, sometimes repeated at 6-month intervals, while Rx for covid tends to be daily for 30 days, leading to questions by pharmacists.

amother

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 3:27 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Even after the expiry of said mandate, most people have had a very hard time getting these prescriptions filled. If you haven’t personally had experience with it, you wouldn’t know.

amother

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 3:31 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Curious to know if you have a background in science and have the knowledge to base your claim that these medications are ineffective? Or are you just repeating what you’ve heard?

amother

Ballota

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 3:37 pm

Um so shouting doesn’t make this any more true

And don’t let’s not even get started on that side splitting hilarious (not) marginalizing and smearing of ivermectin and those who wanted to prescribe it and/or take it as crazy rubes eating vet meds

Oh right! That was corrected and retracted as a mistake!

Fake news indeed.

DrMom

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 3:52 pm

Amarante wrote:

I find the data here to be very transparent and easily available. I don't know if the rate of scientific/mathematical literacy is higher here, but I find so many US posters are very riled up and not familiar with the latest studies and statistics.

Our government seems interested in opening things up as much as possible without causing harm. Also, things aren't crazy politicized here the way they are in the US.

amother

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 4:19 pm

amother [ Bellflower ] wrote:

What is the point to this thread?

Here is the point.

The unvaccinated are not a threat. Their unvaccinated status alone does not make them a danger to you or to the immunocompromised or to anyone. They are not getting and spreading Covid anymore than the vaccinated are. They deserve to have the exact same rights and privileges as the vaccinated. They deserve to be treated with dignity. Unfortunately, on this site they are often treated as pariahs and that is wrong.

This is all based on scientific evidence. As of yet - and this thread is six pages long - there has been no evidence brought by any of those posting here that refutes any of the points made in this post - which are points made in many previous posts.

(Perhaps with the exception of one country’s recent statistics showing the rate of infection is higher among the unvaccinated compared to the vaccinated. Which isn’t conclusive evidence when you look at similar statistics from other countries and see that the rate of infection is higher among the vaccinated - as shown in an earlier post)

amother

Camellia

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 4:23 pm

Amarante wrote:

There is very good reason. When you live in a country constantly under attack, you know your fellow people have your back, they grow up and risk their lives on each others behalf. Overwhelmingly have jewish values, religious or not. Are openly committed to the survival of our nation.

The US is full of bribeable, conflict of interest selfish people of power. Me, me, me, me. The dollar is the bottom line, not the survival of the people. If Pfizer were an israeli corporation, it would no longer exsist. They are found guilty time and again for harming people over losing profit and they get a joke slap on the wrist.

Then you have the part about not recognizing the G-d given immune system.

If the vaccine is proven to lessen severity but not stop spread, it is NO DIFFERENT than the flu vaccine. Except shorter lived apparently.

It is a poor product. Period. If it was a great product no one would need to force people to line up for it. If you remove the motivation for them to improve products, they have no reason not to say this is good enough while raking in hundreds of billions.

They can say sick people to stay home. But have no right to mandate healthy symptomless people.

I do not see a different outcome for the countries allowing its citizens to guard themselves how they choose without a nanny state.

california2

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 4:33 pm

OP, I assume you read pages 5 and 6 of your link?
https://assets.publishing.serv.....0.pdf

Page 5: they review the data showing vaccine effectiveness against infection (% who get the disease with versus without vaccination).
Page 6: they review the data showing vaccine effectiveness against transmission (I think this exactly what you're asking about?). Page 6 itself is the plain language summary. The references are at the end.

Perhaps you could start here: this article shows vaccination provides ~ 50% less risk of onward transmission of delta (better against alpha)
Eyre DW, Taylor D, Purver M, Chapman D, Fowler T, Pouwels KB, Walker S, Peto
T. ‘The impact of SARS-CoV-2 vaccination on Alpha & Delta variant transmission’
medRxiv 2021: 2021.09.28.21264260

Yes, I agree that the vaccine does NOT provide 100% protection against passing on disease. It does decrease the risk of passing on disease; it doesn't decrease that risk to zero.

southernbubby

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 7:36 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Hopefully the Delta variant will wind down and the other variants won't take over and the Merck anti viral will be effective and the vaccine will matter less and less.
Meanwhile, I don't think that the unvaccinated are treated like pariahs on here. Best Bubby isn't vaccinated, doesn't believe in it, and everyone is crazy about her and me, who is vaccinated, doesn't have as many friends on here as she does. People are always hugging my posts and it's not because I make good potato kugel. There are people, like myself, who are skeptical of anything that is outside the mainstream, even if it could possibly be true, especially if whoever is espousing it is totally off the wall.
I have been called an apikoris and was told that my "secular attitude" towards the vaccine comes from my BT background so please, dump the victim mentality.

amother

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 8:04 pm

Amarante wrote:

Actually, Israel is having major pushback now because of the recent Facebook scandal. This video describes what happened and how it is affecting many Israelis:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xr4iLa-QOQg

ETA: If the link doesn’t work, it’s because YouTube removed it, as they’ve been removing content that may contribute to vaccine hesitancy.

#BestBubby

Mon, Oct 11 2021, 8:49 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Meanwhile, I don't think that the unvaccinated are treated like pariahs on here. Best Bubby isn't vaccinated, doesn't believe in it, and everyone is crazy about her and me, who is vaccinated, doesn't have as many friends on here as she does. People are always hugging my posts and it's not because I make good potato kugel.

Southern Bubby Ive gotten plenty of "hugs" myself.

People have called me crazy, clueless, tone deaf etc.

Someone even said my children hate me and dance when I leave.

There are unbalanced people online and. you have to ignore them.

They are to be pitied...