Chassidish move to Florida

amother

Cadetblue

Mon, Jan 17 2022, 11:38 am

amother [ Honey ] wrote:

I know a thing or two about Tosh and it’s impossible that they didn’t have to change at least somewhat to be able to fit into BY style schools in Miami. Even BY anywhere in Canada or NY is way different than Tosh, forget about BY in Miami. It doesn’t mean they did anything wrong. But it would be naive to think that they are exactly the same as till now just in a different location. It’s not realistic to believe that so I won’t let anyone convince themselves or others that they are exactly the same and that it’s a simple transition for a Chasidish family.

So you're just making assumptions about someone you don't even know based on the town they come from. That's just wrong on so many levels.

Nobody said it's simple, but neither is it impossible.

amother

Eggshell

Mon, Jan 17 2022, 11:47 am

OP, just want to throw in that there's a lovely tiny-but-developing community that may be more up your alley in terms of chassidish in Arizona. Weather is also better there because there's almost 0 humidity, even when hot.

amother

Iris

Mon, Jan 17 2022, 11:50 am

amother [ DarkPurple ] wrote:

Am I the only one wondering how ultra chassidish people will deal with Florida's heat?

I was literally gonna say. Plus I don’t get (truly) why people who are used to being in an ensconced frum neighborhood (Monsey, BP, and further right like Williamsburg and NS) are only see women who are double head covered would put themselves in a city/state whose climate dictates that shorts and tanks are the norm. I just don’t get it. I am RW MO and one of the main reasons that I won’t consider moved there is I feel I’d be too tempted to not wear stockings and not cover my hair/elbows/knees fully (secondary to the heat) I wouldn’t put myself in situation where that would be a year round nisayon for me.

amother

Eggshell

Mon, Jan 17 2022, 11:54 am

amother [ Iris ] wrote:

They should have a working A/C and perhaps even a pool in the backyard and a car (or 2) to get places. When people move they look at the entire picture. They can also wear a tichel more often than in town, where some people even feel pressure to wear sheitel even just when taking out the garbage. (exaggeration, but you get it.)

amother

DarkOrange

Mon, Jan 17 2022, 11:54 am

DH lived in NMB but then yeshivish and it was not really for him, when he went back to the UK he saw the shtreimels coming in basically. Indeed NMB is now more frum the type is more getting to yeshivish.
DH lived there in his teens in extreme poverty, the downside of a red state is that there is no lots of social services, he felt in general better and nicer in blue states and of course the best in Europe. He had to eat from food stamps while the people who were running his yeshiva got a new BMW for their birthday or even an Aston Martin.
I advise u to go there for a half chol moed or a few shabbosim and really talk to the people there and how they are coping.

amother

Lightblue

Mon, Jan 17 2022, 11:56 am

amother [ Gladiolus ] wrote:

looks like you havn't been in Tosh in a long time... Or you just dknow one type...
I live in Tosh and THERE ARE ALL TYPES (think non shaving...).
I know the family who moved to Florida and no, they did NOT change. They are still as neutral chasidish and refined as they were when living here.
As a matter of fact there are families that are even more open minded than them still living here...

Was about to say this. I thought all people living in Tosh and similar style communities like Monroe are super insular and ultra, but I’ve been there and was surprised. Some people have to live in certain communities for certain reasons without fitting into the stereotypical lifestyle and hashkafa.
There’s one family living in Monroe, their sons wear the peyos behind the ears and are English speaking. I was very surprised.

amother

Stonewash

Mon, Jan 17 2022, 12:11 pm

amother [ Lightblue ] wrote:

Tosh. Monroe. Square even Williamsburg ect are very insular communities. After all the kids growing up in these communities see one kind of jew. But like every community ull find families that do not perfectly fit in.

amother

Burlywood

Mon, Jan 17 2022, 12:36 pm

I’m just putting this info out there for anyone planning to move.
If your children get services in NY/NJ don’t expect that to happen here.
Everything here needs to be paid OUT OF POCKET

amother

Gladiolus

Mon, Jan 17 2022, 12:40 pm

I think Tosh is pretty different than Monroe or Skver cuz I'ts not as constricting. Ppl have more freedom of choice and there is more diversity...
But could be I'm only saying that cuz I live here and Monroe and Skver are not what I think yjey are either

amother

Royalblue

Mon, Jan 17 2022, 2:07 pm

amother [ Peru ] wrote:

I know someone ultra chassidish (Monroe) that moved to LA for medical reasons. They made it work very nicely. You don’t have to forgo on your values.

I believe there are a number of chassidish families living in LA, and have for awhile. I went to seminary 25 years ago and I remember some seriously Gerrer girls from LA in my sem.
Florida does not have anything like that currently. The people I know who moved here from a chassidish background pretty much moved here because they wanted a different lifestyle.

amother

Seashell

Mon, Jan 17 2022, 2:09 pm

amother [ Peru ] wrote:

I know someone ultra chassidish (Monroe) that moved to LA for medical reasons. They made it work very nicely. You don’t have to forgo on your values.

And their children are not all like the parents any longer so this isnt a great example. It's very hard to raise your family outside of your community.

amother

Royalblue

Mon, Jan 17 2022, 2:15 pm

amother [ Eggshell ] wrote:

Have you lived thru a Miami summer in its entirety lol.
Think walking to shul on shabbos. Think trying to spend time with your kids playing outside in the heat. Think your perishable groceries going bad when you drive home from the store if you didn't bring a cooler with ice paks.
I dress pretty casually with loose t-shirts and short socks (no stockings) and I had a headache for a few months straight adjusting to the intense heat in the summer here. If you've visited Florida during the winter time be prepared the heat at that time is nothing like the intensity of a Florida summer day.

amother

Gladiolus

Mon, Jan 17 2022, 2:15 pm

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

And their children are not all like the parents any longer so this isnt a great example. It's very hard to raise your family outside of your community.

neither are the children in chasidish enclaves

amother

DarkPurple

Mon, Jan 17 2022, 2:16 pm

amother [ Eggshell ] wrote:

Many of the chassidish mothers aren't driving. Imagine pushing a stroller around in that heat. Actually, most of Florida is not at all friendly to nondrivers. You pretty much must drive a car there, unless you are living in the heart of downtown Miami or something.

Everyone there has working a/c. You need to keep it on 24/7 or your house gets moldy. That tidbit shocked me when I first learned about it.

Also, on Shabbat no one is driving anywhere. And you have to walk around with the full chassidish levush in the heat. Those clothes were made for cold Polish/Russian/Hungarian etc winters. Not for Florida humidity.

lamplighter

Mon, Jan 17 2022, 2:17 pm

I think you would be putting your kids in a very hard nisayon. They would be different to everyone and would struggle with their home life vs their peers. I don't think it's fair to them or realistic unless you have a huge reason to.
Chabad shluchim do this but their entire lives are dedicated to shlichus and their kids are part of this. They also have an incredible amount of support chinuch wise and emotional support and programming for the children. There are groups and camps and clubs the shluchims kids partake in that help them feel like they are struggling with a purpose and that there are peers just like them going through the same thing etc.
Just stam to do that to your children, I think they may turn out different to what you have in mind.

amother

Honey

Mon, Jan 17 2022, 2:21 pm

amother [ Cadetblue ] wrote:

So you're just making assumptions about someone you don't even know based on the town they come from. That's just wrong on so many levels.

Nobody said it's simple, but neither is it impossible.

Right. I don’t know them personally. If I would, it would be very wrong to discuss them on a public forum. I’m talking about the general idea. A chassidish family from Tosh (or Williamsburg, or skvere, or monsey,etc.) moving to Miami will almost certainly have to change somewhat in order for them to fit into BY of Miami.
If you want to tell me this family is a real exception and they have the exact standards as they had till now, that’s beautiful. And certainly amazing. I hope things don’t change for them as the kids get older and the peer pressure gets too hard.
OP is asking about the general idea of a chassidish family moving and sending to Miami schools. It’s just more honest and realistic to tell her that it’s extremely unusual for the kids to stay the same chassidish as they were till now if that’s not the culture there. It’s not even fair to expect the kids to be comfortable sticking out like a sore thumb. It can backfire too.

amother

Bisque

Mon, Jan 17 2022, 2:34 pm

I was raised in a large out of town community with a few very Chassidishe families (Rebbi's). I was very good friends with this family and the daughter my age so I have an interesting perspective.
At the end of the day, their children are all Chassidishe, raising solid Chassidishe families in the (mostly) tri-state area.
But as their kids grew up there were a lot of compromises, concessions and some outright rebellion so the kids could fit in with their peers.
I remember conversations about clothing styles, stocking color, by learning, hechsherim, music, participating in various activities, camps all were big conversations.
They ended up sending their high school boys to ny for school which was difficult.
My friend confided in me that even though she had yichus from all sides, many people refused her and her siblings because of the influence and exposure.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but there needs to be a strong understanding of the necessary compromises and inevitable rebellion

amother

Seashell

Mon, Jan 17 2022, 4:52 pm

amother [ Gladiolus ] wrote:

neither are the children in chasidish enclaves

But the risk is much greater when you move out. There is a reason chassidesen encourage the community to live together. You just can't ignore the influence of outsiders on chinuch, although everyone has a right to choose what is best for their family.
You can't compare the difference between a child from Monroe and a child from Monsey or a child from Williamsburg and a child from Boro Park. One is not necessarily better than the other, there are just differences. The same way boys are different than girls. There are differences even within the same state and chassides and when you add in city.
Either way, that is not what is being discussed here.