Delete | Imamother

amother

Jetblack

Sun, Feb 13 2022, 2:11 pm

sandyish wrote:

Can anyone with experience in this area weigh in on this situation?

My oldest child is an extremely bright and verbal 4-year-old boy. He has a lot of energy and sometimes channels that into agressiveness/extreme "silliness". He also sometimes has trouble focusing in school, understanding personal space, and cooperating during play with other kids. I have managed to get him approved for SEIT and OT in school.

I have a 1.5 year old daughter, lets call her chani, who he seems to hate. He constantly uses extremely violent speech about her- "I was thinking the whole night of ways to kill chani", "lets put chani in the oven and bake her into bread", "I can't wait until chani dies", "I hate chani, throw her away", "im gonna punch chani in the face", etc. He also does physically hurt her sometimes, but many times restrains himself and comes to me for help. He mostly just yells in her face to scare/anger her when she bothers him. He also sometimes has terrible meltdowns over small things where he screams, hits me, and runs away even in public. The meltdowns are relatively new. I am very open with him about body safety and keep an open line of communication when it comes to things like being touched, so I am confident this is not occurring.

He complains that she always bothers him and ruins everything. Though she does annoy/bother him, as in all sibling relationships, IMO I do my best to keep things fair between them and come up with solutions when she's getting in his space. However, the reality of siblings is that sometimes they are annoying and I can't prevent every occurrence of that. My husband and I also make sure to give him a lot of attention and one-on-one time. We do not hit our kids but I will admit that I do yell/get agressive with him sometimes when he frustrates me and pushes all my buttons. (pulling him away from a situation, pushing him away from me when he is trying to hit me out of anger, even leading him somewhere by his hair. ouch). I know I yell too much, since I am constantly frustrated (I am working on it) and it definitely makes him angry and he may be taking that out on his sister. Last night I yelled, and then he was mean to his sister, and he told me "mommy do you know why I was mean to chani? Because you yelled at me and it made me feel bad".

When he says these violent things, I do my best to address the feelings behind what he is saying while ignoring or only lightly addressing the cruelty of his words. I'll say things like, "I know, it is super super frustrating when Chani touches your stuff, I'll close the door to your room and won't let her in so you can play by yourself now".

I have worked with him on emotional intelligence/empathy/coping tools from a young age, but he still obviously has major struggles in that area, although he will occasionally use some techniques we discuss (letting me know he needs alone time or special time with me, etc).

He also says violent things about other people, and he also does get aggressive with other people sometimes. He doesn't hurt animals or anything like that, but from some of his other actions I do think he has a serious disconnect when it comes to empathy.

I'm not sure how much of this is super abnormal and concerning, how much of it is developmentally normal for a 4 year old boy, and how much of it is just him saying things for shock value/experimenting with the power of his words.

If he's getting SEIT and OT, perhaps its also warranted to take him to a developmental pediatrician for an evaluation.

amother

Glitter

Sun, Feb 13 2022, 2:12 pm

amother [ Steelblue ] wrote:

Wow, really? This approach sounds horrifying. I don’t think it’s a good idea to your daughter to pretend to bake her in an oven with your four year old.

I agree with the person who said to get him professional psychological help.

She’s a baby. I’m sure she’d enjoy the attention.

amother

Sun, Feb 13 2022, 2:12 pm

delete

Last edited by amother on Wed, May 17 2023, 10:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Eggplant

Sun, Feb 13 2022, 2:14 pm

sandyish wrote:

I have discussed pandas with my pediatrician but he didn't seem to think it was a factor, even though he is very knowledgeable about pandas. I will bring it up again. What treatment did you use for your daughter?

Motrin, zyrtec, antibiotics. The rage, aggression, violence was all gone within a week of starting. You can do a motrin and zyrtec or Benadryl trial yourself.

Unfortunately even knowledgeable drs simply aren’t knowledgeable enough. Ours listed pandas as his specialty on his certificate hanging on the wall, but did not want to diagnose my daughter and kept trying to blame it on other things. I had to beg him for antibiotics.

amother

Sun, Feb 13 2022, 2:14 pm

delete

Last edited by amother on Wed, May 17 2023, 10:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

Genius

Sun, Feb 13 2022, 2:15 pm

I don’t think four year olds understand the concept of death at all. My son has declared that he died more than once in the past. IMO your post sounds like you are talking about a 14yo. 4 yr old is a baby still and I can’t imagine where he gets these advanced ideas from.

amother

Sun, Feb 13 2022, 2:15 pm

delete

Last edited by amother on Wed, May 17 2023, 10:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Glitter

Sun, Feb 13 2022, 2:16 pm

OP how do you react when he says these things about his sister?

amother

Sun, Feb 13 2022, 2:17 pm

delete

Last edited by amother on Wed, May 17 2023, 10:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

Librarian

Sun, Feb 13 2022, 2:17 pm

amother [ Glitter ] wrote:

This is normal for a 4 year old. Annoying, but normal. Don’t take it seriously, just be playful about it. You want to bake her in an oven? Chani cake sounds yummy! What flavor cake should we make with Chani? Here, let’s build an oven with the couch cushions and put our Chani cake in. Mmm the cake smells good

If he talks about killing her just be nonchalant about it. Really? Interesting. What are we having for breakfast this morning?

No, it is NOT

amother

Sun, Feb 13 2022, 2:18 pm

delete

Last edited by amother on Wed, May 17 2023, 10:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

#BestBubby

Sun, Feb 13 2022, 2:20 pm

OP: Last night I yelled, and then he was mean to his sister, and he told me "mommy do you know why I was mean to chani? Because you yelled at me and it made me feel bad".
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is very revealing. DS is hurting Chanie to punish you.

I know posters here don't agree with me, but this is classic ABA training:

Don't get angry/emotional when DS hurts Chanie.

Do punish him but in a very casual way.

"Oh, you hurt Chanie - your favorite toy is going in time-out for today."

Then WALK AWAY WITH CHANIE, and give DS no further attention about what he did.

Any time you punish, (or if you do yell), make sure Chanie is not near DS - very important.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Try also POSITIVE reinforcement:

If you play nicely with Chanie for 5 minutes, I will give you a treat.

If you say "I love you, Chanie" I will give you a treat.

amother

Sun, Feb 13 2022, 2:20 pm

delete

Last edited by amother on Wed, May 17 2023, 10:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Eggplant

Sun, Feb 13 2022, 2:23 pm

sandyish wrote:

I very much want to believe this, but it seems like whenever I discuss/google the issue I get responses on two opposite ends of the spectrum- either, this is normal, don't make a big deal and he will outgrow it, or, this is absolutely not normal and he needs serious psychological help. How do I know which path to take?

IMO it really depends on the context. Otherwise well adjusted but extremely verbal kid, normal. Kid with other ongoing neuro issues, this is probably another sign. Also, your kid is resisting redirection and rephrasing. Also, you’re worried. Red flags.

amother

Sun, Feb 13 2022, 2:23 pm

delete

Last edited by amother on Wed, May 17 2023, 10:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Glitter

Sun, Feb 13 2022, 2:24 pm

sandyish wrote:

Like I said, I really have focused a lot on verbalizing feelings/emotional intelligence. empathy from an early age, so he does have the tools for this, and it makes me all the more concerned to see him acting this way.

Like someone else pointed out, he’s four years old and has no concept of death or killing. He’s saying it because he thinks it’s funny and shocking.

amother

Glitter

Sun, Feb 13 2022, 2:25 pm

amother [ Eggplant ] wrote:

She’s worried because that’s what a lot of mommies do. I worry all the time. That’s not a red flag.

amother

Sun, Feb 13 2022, 2:26 pm

delete

Last edited by amother on Wed, May 17 2023, 10:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

cupcake123

Sun, Feb 13 2022, 2:27 pm

OP I'm leaning towards not normal although I dont know the whole story. Plenty (all?) moms yell..no 4 year old I know speaks like that. When in doubt check it out. It cant hurt to go to a developmental pediatrician. If he says its normal maybe take some parenting classes.

Hatzlacha Rabba OP! Hope everything resolves itself easily.

amother

Eggplant

Sun, Feb 13 2022, 2:29 pm

Just going to add to my post about pandas,
1. It’s very common for kids with pandas to have 1 person be their target. It’s not a conscious or logical process but it’s a pattern that seems to come up a lot. Extreme hatred for a certain sibling, or 1 parent. There’s a hypothesis that these targets are often silent strep carriers and trigger an immune response in the aggressor.
2. In the context of pandas these statements aren’t necessarily a sign of lack of empathy or sociopathy. They usually come from extreme neurological rage, and or intrusive thoughts.