Not inviting kids - how to make it clear

amother

Seagreen

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:03 pm

amother [ Hyssop ] wrote:

No. If the host says no children, it means all children. People don't want children at simchas for reasons other than financial as well. Amother Hunter already referred to this earlier. People spend lots of money for simchas and they may prefer a classy, quiet elegant affair. Children make lots of noise, babies cry, and carriages look very much out of place at such affairs.

You don't have to be of the same mindset to accept other people's preferences. Some people enjoy the children at their simchas, and for some people just don't. If the host clearly states their preferences, it's rude and inappropriate to bring along unwelcome guests.

At least in my world, "no children" does not include nursing babies." If the baby will be mostly in the stroller and without bringing them you can't come, you bring them, but need to be willing to stay outside if they are making noise.

amother

Lavender

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:05 pm

watergirl wrote:

...If your friend was honest with you and said she could not afford to invite children, was making a bare bones simcha she is largely doing herself, she is a BT with almost no family, her mother is gone, her side of the family won't even show because they think the frum stuff is weird, and of her small guest list, she chose to include you because she feels close to you and wants you there to enhance the simcha, you would turn and leave? And say it's cringy?

You will have more friends like me in your life. Some are making their simcha from tzedakka funds. They can not invite your kids. Some have other reasons they can not invite them. Maybe your kids don't know the names of the baalei simcha. Please learn to look favorably on your friends who are living real life and have to make tough choices.

I would be very hesitant because I would not want someone to pay for my meal if it's hard for them. Honesty is a great value, but not everything needs to be said. If you invite someone, you want them to feel invited with a full heart. It's perfectly normal to make a simcha and invite a couple w/o their kids. Even people who could afford it, would think twice before having kids come to a simcha.

watergirl

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:07 pm

amother [ Lavender ] wrote:

I would be very hesitant because I would not want someone to pay for my meal if it's hard for them. Honesty is a great value, but not everything needs to be said. It's perfectly normal to make a simcha and invite a couple w/o their kids. Even people who could afford it, would think twice before having kids come to a simcha.

I would not be offering up this info unless they push to bring their kids.

amother

Heather

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:07 pm

amother [ Outerspace ] wrote:

Personally, if a "friend" called and told me she can only afford a plate for me but not my kids, I'd feel some combination of cringiness/pity/hurt and likely just not go. Certainly if I went and then did see other kids there, I would make a quick U-turn and head for the door.

Perhaps you could arrange to have babysitting at the event. Even if it will cost you some money, it will still be cheaper than paying for the additional portions, and then you could add on the invite - plus tell them verbally - that there will be babysitting on site for all kids under 13.

You should also check with the caterer, because in my experience little kids are often charged half the rate of adults, so perhaps you could squeeze a few kids into your budget to avoid a cringy uncomfortable situation.

In my circles, kids don't get to go to weddings UNLESS they are immediate family.
OP is doing a BM. it's the same. No kids unless immediate family.
Until some time ago people usually understood that an adults event is an adults event and they respected the wish of the baal/at hasimcha.
Children stayed home and that was it.
If you feel hurt because your precious child was excluded (everyone else's kids were also excluded too!) maybe it's time to work on your gaa'va.
Believe me, there will be plenty of occasions in the future for you and your child to attend simchos.

watergirl

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:10 pm

amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:

I have no problem with nursing babies. One of my friends has a nursing baby (who my son actually adores). Another one of my friends has a toddler who they sit down and ask the waiter to bring a plate for. I was at a wedding with my chevra right before pesach and I was shocked to see my friend not only bring her mother to the wedding, but she brought her kids, including the toddler, and asked the waiter for plates for all. It was my best friend's child's wedding, so I happened to have known the kids and mother were not invited. This friend has brought her mother to my house before when I just invited her and her husband.

Sesame

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:16 pm

watergirl wrote:

amother

Heather

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:17 pm

amother [ Hyssop ] wrote:

You said it perfectly.

amother

Heather

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:20 pm

watergirl wrote:

Beyond rude

amother

Zinnia

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:22 pm

wifenmother wrote:

Yes, inviting your twin nephews is 'different'. Since you're the baal simcha you get to decide who you make exceptions for.

At a recent bar mitzva I made, my sil was literally offended when I told her that her 10 year old son is not invited even though he was 'really looking forward'. It's her issue, not mine...

If it's standard in the community to invite, she has every right to be offended on behalf of her child. It hurts to be excluded.

invisiblecircus

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:34 pm

watergirl wrote:

My best friend just made a wedding and had the same thing with these couples, she told them it was adults only, and they brought their kids anyway

[...]

So I need to be clear with them, but as nice as possible... how do I make it clear? I am sending the invitations via evite.

You've had lots of good advice on this thread but it sounds difficult to make it clear to a couple who was specifically told "adults only" and they brought their kids anyway!

watergirl

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:35 pm

invisiblecircus wrote:

You've had lots of good advice on this thread but it sounds difficult to make it clear to a couple who was specifically told "adults only" and they brought their kids anyway!

And if those kids come, I will of course greet them with a smile. I can only do my part, right?

invisiblecircus

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:40 pm

amother [ Zinnia ] wrote:

If it's standard in the community to invite, she has every right to be offended on behalf of her child. It hurts to be excluded.

He's only really excluded if the sons of other SIL's are invited regardless of what the community standards are.

A few years ago I was upset when my cousin did not invite me to his wedding because ALL the other cousins were invited. I felt excluded, even though I understood that obviously he can invite whoever he wants. I didn't feel excluded when another relative didn't any of the cousins.

amother

Hyssop

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:44 pm

amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:

I have neighbors and friends who think like you, and I find that very frustrating. Strollers in the hall, scattered around the tables, mess up the decor and setup. You go and spend money to create a nice affair, with an elegant ambiance and then you have some guests who have no concerns upending it with their own preferences.

Imo, strollers have no place in the hall. It's not a restaurant, it's not a casual party, it's a serious sit down affair. If I've respectfully asked someone not to bring the baby, I will respectfully ask them to keep the stroller outside.

You're more than entitled to your own opinions around this - at your own affair. You're not entitled to impose your opinion on someone else's affair.

amother

Hyssop

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:46 pm

amother [ Zinnia ] wrote:

If it's standard in the community to invite, she has every right to be offended on behalf of her child. It hurts to be excluded.

I don't understand this. Is it only her child that's being excluded - or are all children being excluded from the event?

If it's the former, I agree it hurts. If it's the latter, then your comment makes no sense. Every person is entitled to make their simcha as they see fit, regardless of what is considered to be a standard in a community.

Chayalle

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:55 pm

amother [ Outerspace ] wrote:

I so totally do not understand this mindset. Why would you think your friend making a Simcha is obligated to host/feed your children, or provide babysitting for you? (I don't even understand the concept - you want her to pay for a daycare-like setting where everyone can dump their kids? Besides for the fact that I'd never leave my kids in such a setting, I can't imagine it being a very cheap option either.)

Someone I know was telling me that where she lives, if someone makes a Simcha, for example a vort, people come with all their kids, they sit them down and feed them supper. It's such a stress and expense for the Baal Simcha, who wants to put out hot food for family travelling in from a distance, and instead they find themselves having to provide supper for the whole neighborhood! It's beyond ridiculous, and I don't get why people feel so entitled.

watergirl

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 3:03 pm

Chayalle wrote:

So odd! The only time I ever bring my kids to a vort is if it's their own teacher and the kid was personally invited (which has happened a few times). Is this a thing that people do?

amother

Zinnia

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 3:07 pm

Chayalle wrote:

The person making a simcha is not obligated to provide babysitting, but the person invited isn't obligated to attend either. If you know someone has children, you can't require them to come without their children.