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Tuition raised 2k per child to cover teacher’s bloated salar
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imorethanamother




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, May 25 2022, 9:12 am
amother [ Pistachio ] wrote:
I doubt the wedding hall the dinner is held in is free. Or the caterer. The school I send my children to forces me to give a $360 dinner fee on top of tuition even though I never go to the dinner. It is another ploy to force parents to pay more money. They have other fundraisers throughout the year and advertise they raise millions. This is a great way to get an additional $360 from each parent. And people are not going to dinners they don't know about for entertainment. The only people who go, go because of obligation. No rich person has any real interest in hearing boring speeches. If they want a good meal they will go out to eat with friends. They go to the dinner because they have a connection to the school and feel obligated.


The caterer absolutely gives them a discount. I’ve been on dinner committees. So does the hall.

The $360 extra charge is so that you can claim that as a donation on your taxes, otherwise it would be lumped in with all the rest of your tuition. And it also covers other fundraising activities because your school costs tens of millions to run, and your $5000 per kid isn’t covering anything. They need to make up that shortfall so that your tuition prices aren’t $27,000.

During Covid the schools had a chance to see, in action, what would happen if they didn’t have their dinner. To everyone’s (no one’s) total surprise, they made substantially less that year, and every year since that there was no banquet.

So this year, there’s another banquet. Because human nature is human nature. Maybe rich people do feel obligated to go, but they’re not boycotting it because the fundraiser is torture and with disgusting food. And once their obligation makes them come, they trot out speakers who know the donors well. They make lots of mentions of how important this school is. Their peers are donating. This is all part of the process.

I read a book about the charity called Water. It provides clean water to poor people around the world (wow, how little do we appreciate our lives!). The CEO was under fire for making too much money, and they replaced him with someone way cheaper.

The charity didn’t make nearly as much money without the charismatic person at the helm, and did very poorly.

Which actually leads me to another point - there are plenty of extremely popular charities that donate to very specific things and are a household name, and their CEOs get paid a TON. No one thinks this is at all strange, but ask people to pay their tuition for their teachers, and everyone goes crazy.
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imorethanamother




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, May 25 2022, 9:20 am
amother [ NeonGreen ] wrote:
It is not only to attract the rich. Many schools have a MANDATORY dinner fee. There is no getting out of it. In fact, some schools had their dinners cancelled in 2020 due to covid and refused to refund the dinner fee even though there was no dinner! And so many parents were struggling then.

My only consolation is that every one of these crooked administrators will face din ve'cheshbon in shamayim. They may get away with it in this world, but hopefully they will not in the next world.

Schools think that the "end justifies the means" and because they are teaching Torah they can obtain money in any way they want, even if it is dishonest. I have more examples but not gonna post them here


Ahhh. Now you’ve shown your true colors. Now everyone at your children's school is a thief and a liar and you’re calling for judgement day. Okay.

Bye!
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amother




NeonGreen
 

Post Wed, May 25 2022, 9:23 am
imorethanamother wrote:
The caterer absolutely gives them a discount. I’ve been on dinner committees. So does the hall.

The $360 extra charge is so that you can claim that as a donation on your taxes, otherwise it would be lumped in with all the rest of your tuition. And it also covers other fundraising activities because your school costs tens of millions to run, and your $5000 per kid isn’t covering anything. They need to make up that shortfall so that your tuition prices aren’t $27,000.

During Covid the schools had a chance to see, in action, what would happen if they didn’t have their dinner. To everyone’s (no one’s) total surprise, they made substantially less that year, and every year since that there was no banquet.

So this year, there’s another banquet. Because human nature is human nature. Maybe rich people do feel obligated to go, but they’re not boycotting it because the fundraiser is torture and with disgusting food. And once their obligation makes them come, they trot out speakers who know the donors well. They make lots of mentions of how important this school is. Their peers are donating. This is all part of the process.

I read a book about the charity called Water. It provides clean water to poor people around the world (wow, how little do we appreciate our lives!). The CEO was under fire for making too much money, and they replaced him with someone way cheaper.

The charity didn’t make nearly as much money without the charismatic person at the helm, and did very poorly.

Which actually leads me to another point - there are plenty of extremely popular charities that donate to very specific things and are a household name, and their CEOs get paid a TON. No one thinks this is at all strange, but ask people to pay their tuition for their teachers, and everyone goes crazy.


Ok you totally misunderstood. The 360 IS lumped together with tuition. And tuition is not 5000. More like 11000 (at least I think that's what it was last year). So now it's 11360, and they divide that over the 10 month school year. So you don't get any tax benefit.

And many schools got tremendous amount of govt grants during covid. It was all public info.

And since covid, my kids school ran 2 fundraising campaigns. One for 3.6 million and one for 2.5 million. I don't think they made "substantially less."

And I happen to 100% agree with your last paragraph about charity organizations, but that is a topic for a diff thread. I never donate to charity organization for that reasons. I only give master to our rav who gives it directly to people in need.
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amother




NeonGreen
 

Post Wed, May 25 2022, 9:25 am
imorethanamother wrote:
Ahhh. Now you’ve shown your true colors. Now everyone at your children's school is a thief and a liar and you’re calling for judgement day. Okay.

Bye!


I have more examples, I'm just not sure if I should post them on a public forum. Then again it's not like the school is quiet about it so why should I have to be. But if I did post them I think you would agree with me
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amother




Bone
 

Post Wed, May 25 2022, 9:49 am
Anyone who has received a government grant has a million strings as to where that money can go and how it can be spent.

I have relatives that went to jail because they misappropriated government grant money at the school towards things it was not intended for, things that benefited the students.

This is no joke. If you knew anything about grant money, you would not believe that somehow principals got rich from it.
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amother




Hunter
 

Post Wed, May 25 2022, 9:52 am
amother [ NeonGreen ] wrote:
It is not only to attract the rich. Many schools have a MANDATORY dinner fee. There is no getting out of it. In fact, some schools had their dinners cancelled in 2020 due to covid and refused to refund the dinner fee even though there was no dinner! And so many parents were struggling then.

My only consolation is that every one of these crooked administrators will face din ve'cheshbon in shamayim. They may get away with it in this world, but hopefully they will not in the next world.

Schools think that the "end justifies the means" and because they are teaching Torah they can obtain money in any way they want, even if it is dishonest. I have more examples but not gonna post them here


I feel for you that this is your worldview.
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amother




Peach
 

Post Wed, May 25 2022, 9:55 am
imorethanamother wrote:
The party planner did it for free or maybe to get a tuition discount. The banquet is there to attract rich people, who then turn around and donate hefty sums of money so that your tuitions stay at $7500 instead of $27,000. Rich people are not interested in a phone call asking for millions of dollars.

They are in a comfortable, happy place where they like the food. Their friends next to them are donating a lot of money so they feel peer pressure. And then they play the video so it tugs at your heartstrings.

When’s the last time you donated to a charity that you knew little about from a single phone call, no fundraising event that looked fun and interesting? Marketing is an art. If you don’t understand that, you’d be terrible at running a school and you’d have no donors. Your tuition prices would be sky high.


Many charities host balls and galas and other in-person events. They wouldn't do it if they didn't work.

While there are some people who don't like social events, there are many people who do enjoy these events and not to be biased but many women enjoy going to an event and being able to dress up and mingle.

Aside from the money raised by the actual dinner there are generally additional money raising stuff done at the actual event including auctions. And again - not to be biased in terms of gender - for a lot of men there is ego involved in other people seeing how much you are able to give.

I am surprised that the dinners aren't structured so they are tax deductible as most secular charity events are. Of course perhaps if it is mandatory then it can't be tax deductible and is really just tuition.
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amother




Pistachio
 

Post Wed, May 25 2022, 9:58 am
imorethanamother wrote:
The caterer absolutely gives them a discount. I’ve been on dinner committees. So does the hall.

The $360 extra charge is so that you can claim that as a donation on your taxes, otherwise it would be lumped in with all the rest of your tuition. And it also covers other fundraising activities because your school costs tens of millions to run, and your $5000 per kid isn’t covering anything. They need to make up that shortfall so that your tuition prices aren’t $27,000.

During Covid the schools had a chance to see, in action, what would happen if they didn’t have their dinner. To everyone’s (no one’s) total surprise, they made substantially less that year, and every year since that there was no banquet.

So this year, there’s another banquet. Because human nature is human nature. Maybe rich people do feel obligated to go, but they’re not boycotting it because the fundraiser is torture and with disgusting food. And once their obligation makes them come, they trot out speakers who know the donors well. They make lots of mentions of how important this school is. Their peers are donating. This is all part of the process.

I read a book about the charity called Water. It provides clean water to poor people around the world (wow, how little do we appreciate our lives!). The CEO was under fire for making too much money, and they replaced him with someone way cheaper.

The charity didn’t make nearly as much money without the charismatic person at the helm, and did very poorly.

Which actually leads me to another point - there are plenty of extremely popular charities that donate to very specific things and are a household name, and their CEOs get paid a TON. No one thinks this is at all strange, but ask people to pay their tuition for their teachers, and everyone goes crazy.


Nope the dinner fee is lumped with the tuition and all the other fees. No tax deduction. And I pay $10k tuition too. And guess what, during covid when there was no dinner I was still charged a dinner fee.
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imorethanamother




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, May 25 2022, 10:09 am
amother [ Pistachio ] wrote:
Nope the dinner fee is lumped with the tuition and all the other fees. No tax deduction. And I pay $10k tuition too. And guess what, during covid when there was no dinner I was still charged a dinner fee.


Guess what. During Covid a huge percentage of the parent body didn’t pay tuition. They didn’t have that money to give back to you.

I mean, if you’d prefer, they could give every parent back the $360 in addition to having loads of parents renege on tuition and then they can shut down mid year and you can scramble to find your kids another school.

Sounds great! Oh, did you not think there are consequences to not paying?

For the record, look up the equivalent price it costs to educate a child in public school in your area. Is it $5,000? Or is it more accurately $13,000 and more? Your price is $10,000 and many many many students don’t even pay! Can’t you, just a little bit, have hakaras hatov that you have a beautiful Jewish education at a bargain??
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imorethanamother




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, May 25 2022, 10:10 am
amother [ Pistachio ] wrote:
Nope the dinner fee is lumped with the tuition and all the other fees. No tax deduction. And I pay $10k tuition too. And guess what, during covid when there was no dinner I was still charged a dinner fee.


And if the dinner fee is lumped in with the rest of tuition how do you know what it is and how much it is? Maybe you need an accountant because just saying “dinner fee” means it’s separate.
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amother




NeonGreen
 

Post Wed, May 25 2022, 10:21 am
imorethanamother wrote:
Guess what. During Covid a huge percentage of the parent body didn’t pay tuition. They didn’t have that money to give back to you.

I mean, if you’d prefer, they could give every parent back the $360 in addition to having loads of parents renege on tuition and then they can shut down mid year and you can scramble to find your kids another school.

Sounds great! Oh, did you not think there are consequences to not paying?

For the record, look up the equivalent price it costs to educate a child in public school in your area. Is it $5,000? Or is it more accurately $13,000 and more? Your price is $10,000 and many many many students don’t even pay! Can’t you, just a little bit, have hakaras hatov that you have a beautiful Jewish education at a bargain??


That is a lie. I don't know any parent who stopped paying tuition in march 2020. I do know some parents who called and begged for a reduction and the school refused. They claimed their expenses went up due to covid (this is when the schools were CLOSED). Of course they refused to provide details how exactly their expenses went up when the school building was closed.

As far as as shutting down mid year, they basically did do that. The few hours of "phone class" was worthless.

They also continued charging their transportation fee even though the buses were sitting in the lot.

Should I go on?

Anyway, do you honestly feel it is right to FORCE parents to pay an expensive dinner fee? If a dinner is a fundraiser it should be optional. They can encourage and ask for it, but they should not force it.
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keym




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, May 25 2022, 10:27 am
imorethanamother wrote:
And if the dinner fee is lumped in with the rest of tuition how do you know what it is and how much it is? Maybe you need an accountant because just saying “dinner fee” means it’s separate.


Actually she's right.
I have been paying tuition in 5 Lakewood schools. They all say the same thing

Tuition $6000
Book fee $200
Mandatory Transportation $225
Mandatory summer program$350
Registration $200
Dinner fee $500

Total is $7475.
Please pay tge full amount upfront, 10 postdated checks for $747.50 or 12 postdated checks for $628.76.


And we didn't get prorated for the 4 months of no bussing during Corona.
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imorethanamother




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, May 25 2022, 10:33 am
keym wrote:
Actually she's right.
I have been paying tuition in 5 Lakewood schools. They all say the same thing

Tuition $6000
Book fee $200
Mandatory Transportation $225
Mandatory summer program$350
Registration $200
Dinner fee $500

Total is $7475.
Please pay tge full amount upfront, 10 postdated checks for $747.50 or 12 postdated checks for $628.76.


And we didn't get prorated for the 4 months of no bussing during Corona.


And then you show the breakdown to your accountant because dinner fees, book fees, etc can be tax deducted as charitable expenses and other. I’m not an accountant but we have one and they told us the breakdown is to benefit us. They could have just said pay us $7500.

Our school also has a membership fee. Again, tax deductible.

Your $225 per family for the entire year does not in any way cover insurance, bus rentals, driver costs, gas and maintenance. I’m really surprised they break even.

Btw, your tuition per child is incredibly low.
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faigie




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, May 25 2022, 10:34 am
Here's what I think. If schools were run not for profit, as opposed to separate owners, tuition would go down. I've seen that in one yeshiva, Yeshivat Haatid in NJ. When a yeshiva is owned by a family, as in a business, there is going to be a lot of cash skimmed right off the top. If the owner needs a new home, guess who's tuition is going up?
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keym




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, May 25 2022, 10:36 am
imorethanamother wrote:
And then you show the breakdown to your accountant because dinner fees, book fees, etc can be tax deducted as charitable expenses and other. I’m not an accountant but we have one and they told us the breakdown is to benefit us. They could have just said pay us $7500.

Our school also has a membership fee. Again, tax deductible.

Your $225 per family for the entire year does not in any way cover insurance, bus rentals, driver costs, gas and maintenance. I’m really surprised they break even.

Btw, your tuition per child is incredibly low.


Actually the $225 is for SUNDAY BUSSING. 2 routes a week per child. They break even.
And the amount of my tuition is actually not the point.
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amother




Pistachio
 

Post Wed, May 25 2022, 10:36 am
imorethanamother wrote:
Guess what. During Covid a huge percentage of the parent body didn’t pay tuition. They didn’t have that money to give back to you.

I mean, if you’d prefer, they could give every parent back the $360 in addition to having loads of parents renege on tuition and then they can shut down mid year and you can scramble to find your kids another school.

Sounds great! Oh, did you not think there are consequences to not paying?

For the record, look up the equivalent price it costs to educate a child in public school in your area. Is it $5,000? Or is it more accurately $13,000 and more? Your price is $10,000 and many many many students don’t even pay! Can’t you, just a little bit, have hakaras hatov that you have a beautiful Jewish education at a bargain??


I was forced to pay in full during covid. And also for the dinner. And for the bus fee. The school got millions from the government. If your telling me people stopped paying I have a hard time believing that because they wouldn't even give me a break when I called and explained my situation. I doubt they only made me pay. But if they did, then how is that fair? Why am I covering for the people that don't pay when I can't afford it? Where did the millions on covid money go? Where did the millions they raised in a fundraiser go? Nobody knows. It's a bottomless pit that loves to cry poverty. If I want to get a $360 break so as not to pay the dinner fee I need to send paperwork detailing how I spend every penny. If they want to raise me $2k there is no justification.
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amother




Pistachio
 

Post Wed, May 25 2022, 10:38 am
faigie wrote:
Here's what I think. If schools were run not for profit, as opposed to separate owners, tuition would go down. I've seen that in one yeshiva, Yeshivat Haatid in NJ. When a yeshiva is owned by a family, as in a business, there is going to be a lot of cash skimmed right off the top. If the owner needs a new home, guess who's tuition is going up?


This exactly. Nobody knows where the money goes and how it's divided up. We know where it typically doesn't go...to the teachers paycheck.
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amother




Mustard
 

Post Wed, May 25 2022, 10:39 am
imorethanamother wrote:


Btw, your tuition per child is incredibly low.


It is for 11 months. Not 10
Which puts it in even more perspective how low it is compared to every where else.
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imorethanamother




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, May 25 2022, 10:43 am
amother [ NeonGreen ] wrote:
That is a lie. I don't know any parent who stopped paying tuition in march 2020. I do know some parents who called and begged for a reduction and the school refused. They claimed their expenses went up due to covid (this is when the schools were CLOSED). Of course they refused to provide details how exactly their expenses went up when the school building was closed.

As far as as shutting down mid year, they basically did do that. The few hours of "phone class" was worthless.

They also continued charging their transportation fee even though the buses were sitting in the lot.

Should I go on?

Anyway, do you honestly feel it is right to FORCE parents to pay an expensive dinner fee? If a dinner is a fundraiser it should be optional. They can encourage and ask for it, but they should not force it.


I guess you really do know everything. We are all lying to you. Everyone you know paid full tuition and the schools just pocketed it and made a lavish party for teachers you weren’t invited to. Your principal is probably outside your car, right now, stealing the gas from the fuel tank.

Question: have you ever run a business? You know, paid rent on a property, paid taxes, had employees? And not just five employees but hundreds?

Also, no one is forcing you to do anything. If you hate your children’s jewish education so much, there are alternatives. You could have pulled your children out that entire time during Covid and homeschooled your children. You sound really mad.

I would think you’re sad about your financial predicament, which would make me empathetic. But instead you insist that people at your child’s school are rashaim who need a din v’cheshbon. If you really believe that, it’s probably time for you to leave the school.
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amother




NeonGreen
 

Post Wed, May 25 2022, 10:46 am
imorethanamother wrote:
I guess you really do know everything. We are all lying to you. Everyone you know paid full tuition and the schools just pocketed it and made a lavish party for teachers you weren’t invited to. Your principal is probably outside your car, right now, stealing the gas from the fuel tank.

Question: have you ever run a business? You know, paid rent on a property, paid taxes, had employees? And not just five employees but hundreds?

Also, no one is forcing you to do anything. If you hate your children’s jewish education so much, there are alternatives. You could have pulled your children out that entire time during Covid and homeschooled your children. You sound really mad.

I would think you’re sad about your financial predicament, which would make me empathetic. But instead you insist that people at your child’s school are rashaim who need a din v’cheshbon. If you really believe that, it’s probably time for you to leave the school.


What do you mean by "WE are all lying to you?" How do YOU know everything? Are you part of a school admin? And even if you are, and your school runs 100% honest, that does not mean every other school is.
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