Being so into clothing

mitzva

Thu, Jun 23 2022, 2:00 pm

twizzlers1 wrote:

You can come to Israel! And absolutely no pressure here. And go to a wedding and you'll see people in jeans no see people super fancy. Cuz most people know people that live in different circles. But even the area I live in absolutely anything goes and there is zero pressure. People enjoy dressing up and finding the perfect outfit and I don't think there's anything wrong in that either. It's not my thing but the people that really brings them a lot of pleasure. In a pretty harmless way.

I go to israel all the time for family weddings. ashdod, bet shemesh, givat zeev, yerusahlayim bene brak
ISRAEL IS A WESTERN COUNTRY.

DrMom

Thu, Jun 23 2022, 2:05 pm

mitzva wrote:

I go to israel all the time for family weddings. ashdod, bet shemesh, givat zeev, yerusahlayim bene brak
ISRAEL IS A WESTERN COUNTRY.

It's a Western county in that we have access to many things (if they don't sell it here, we can always get it on Amazon), but the pressure to dress to the nines every day is definitely not a thing in many Israeli communities.

amother

Butterscotch

Thu, Jun 23 2022, 2:07 pm

amother [ Vanilla ] wrote:

It’s become a career in communities where women don’t have meaningful careers outside the home.

That, and being a top notch balabusta.

True, but it's not so much because lack of careers, it's more so lack of anything meaningful. Women aren't encouraged to learn, or have careers, or develop talents and so on. Humans though are designed to develop a passion, to put significant effort towards something. So if there's nothing of substance available to them, it ends up being directed into these outlets

amother

Wandflower

Thu, Jun 23 2022, 2:14 pm

If you all are so worried about being frum why are you starting threads to shred other people? If you wanted to discuss that it's a challenge you want to overcome that's one thing, but for the purpose of taking apart another human being? That's hypocrisy. So she likes to shop and you like to judge and speak ill of other people, hmmm I wonder which is worse. Before you all come at me I walk around in snoods and slinky skirts so no I'm not being defensive or triggered.

amother

Honey

Thu, Jun 23 2022, 2:24 pm

mitzva wrote:

I go to israel all the time for family weddings. ashdod, bet shemesh, givat zeev, yerusahlayim bene brak
ISRAEL IS A WESTERN COUNTRY.

I live in Israel and am kind of shocked at how people do not respect a simcha!

They literally come dressed so sloppy, in a snood, dirty clothes.

I have spoken to my Israeli relatives who married off and they are bothered by this attitude.

Many Israelis have no sense of fashion which is fine. They have no idea about European brands with superior cut and quality. They buy whatever is in the stores with no idea of anything. They are still wearing sequins and beads on shabbos, they still wear shiny shabbos clothes on dates...

They are a western country but are clueless about fashion.

4g01o

Thu, Jun 23 2022, 2:29 pm

A lot of it has to do with character.
I was brought up in the same household as my sister (very close in age)
She always had to have designer clothes, nice stuff etc. I didn't care! Happy go lucky. I wore the same cute tops over and over again.

My 2 boys are exact opposites.
Just like my sister and I.

amother

Pearl

Thu, Jun 23 2022, 3:39 pm

amother [ Honey ] wrote:

Many Israelis have no sense of fashion which is fine. They have no idea about European brands with superior cut and quality. They buy whatever is in the stores with no idea of anything. They are still wearing sequins and beads on shabbos, they still wear shiny shabbos clothes on dates...
They are a western country but are clueless about fashion.

Well, in my opinion that's a good thing. I live in Israel, and plesse G-d, may the American fashion obsession and consumerism stay far, far away from us! European brands! Who needs those, and why on earth? Do they bring anyone closer to Torah and mitzvot? Do they make anyone a better person?

lamplighter

Thu, Jun 23 2022, 3:50 pm

I am also weirded out when rebetzin types are into materialism and chitzonius. I don't essentially believe you can koch in both. There's an expression in chabad, In gashmius we look to be like those who have less than us and in ruchnius we look to be like those who have more than us.
The standardization of high fashion in frum society is not a good thing. And definitely this idea that the fashionable have it together and anyone who isn't fashionable is less than isnt very "frum" either.

amother

Glitter

Thu, Jun 23 2022, 4:00 pm

amother [ Wandflower ] wrote:

No one is honing in on someone specific. No one is saying that they are perfect by bringing light to a certain issue in our world. Since when did it become so evil and judgy to discuss topics relevant to our society? It’s just a discussion. You never had an opinion on the Jewish world’s behaviour? It’s not a sin to introspect.

amother

Wandflower

Thu, Jun 23 2022, 4:15 pm

amother [ Glitter ] wrote:

Her opening "My super yeshivish sister in law" how's that not honing in on someone specific? I very clearly said discussing the general topic of gashmiyus is one thing, her posting judgements on her sil is not ok.

mitzva

Thu, Jun 23 2022, 4:39 pm

DrMom wrote:

I am not sure if you live in a bubble or not.
My nieces, literally hundreds of them, chasidish and litvish and modern dress up. They act like typical young women who are not literally just surviving from hand to mouth.
they know styles
they know designers
all the new frum communities have designer chain stores.
give me a break.

amother

Forsythia

Thu, Jun 23 2022, 4:40 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

its time you stop projecting all the ills on Americans.
Israeli young women are struggling in this area just as well.

amother

Melon

Thu, Jun 23 2022, 4:48 pm

Israel follows American fashions it just takes a year or two for them to catch up. I was in Israel over Pesach and the styles girls were wearing were the same as their American counterparts.

Thisisnotmyreal

Thu, Jun 23 2022, 4:51 pm

When did gashmiyus become a derogatory term?

Gashmiyus is only problematic when there is unhealthy behavior attached. Like for example the over the top cheesecake a person no matter her circumstances is expected to bring to her shviger and it has to be nicer than all her sils.

amother

Glitter

Thu, Jun 23 2022, 5:40 pm

amother [ Wandflower ] wrote:

Okay I hear you. I guess I wasn't thinking about the original post. Just the comments regarding the overemphasis on materialism.

amother

Sienna

Thu, Jun 23 2022, 5:57 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

My niece in Israel is more obsessed than my well dressed teens in New York.

keym

Thu, Jun 23 2022, 6:03 pm

I have 2 thoughts.

1) it's not about the money spent, it's about the time and energy. One woman can spend $1000 on a baby outfit but just walk into the store and pay. The 2nd woman spends hours, days, running to this store and that store, trying to find the perfect skirt, the perfect top, the perfect shoes. The second woman's brain ends up being consumed with this even though the first woman is wearing that name brand European whatever.

2) to me, the line gets crossed when someone buys something for themselves or their child that they don't even like, but it's the style.

zaq

Thu, Jun 23 2022, 6:05 pm

They have no idea about European brands with superior cut and quality. They buy whatever is in the stores with no idea of anything. They are still wearing sequins and beads on shabbos, they still wear shiny shabbos clothes on dates...

They are a western country but are clueless about fashion.

SO WHAT?
Being out of step with the fashion sensibilities of another country is important--why, exactly?
Does having what you call "fashion sense" make people morally superior? Does it make them smarter, kinder, inherently better-looking, healthier physically or mentally, longer-lived, more relaxed, more agile? Does it keep them from losing their hair, memory, eyesight, sunglasses or a war? Does it make them better friends, better parents, better neighbors, or better citizens? Does it keep them safer, warmer, or better fed? Does it make their water and air cleaner or more abundant?

No? Then, aside from giving you something fun to look at, give me three good reasons why anyone in Israel should give a flying monkey about what's being strutted on the runways in any other country. Give me two. Give me one.

zaq

Thu, Jun 23 2022, 6:09 pm

amother [ Glitter ] wrote:

No one is honing in on someone specific. .

The correct term is HOMING in. To "hone" is to sharpen, as a knife. To home in on is to find and move directly towards, like a heat-seeking missile.