Visit daughter in seminary or vacation with rest of family?

imorethanamother

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 3:10 pm

amother Powderblue wrote:

We are talking about an 18 year old adult child who has chosen to take a sabbatical year. Part of this equation is that they will be spending many many months without their parents and that their parents are paying a fortune for it.

It is not about being fair. It is about parents considering ALL of their children, not just one. The other children also deserve to have their needs and desires met. If a young adult doesn't yet have the understanding that the entire family's lives doesn't revolve around her, this is the perfect time for her to learn.

Obviously if there are well-being concerns thats a different story.

I disagree with this.

The 18 year old girl is going to seminary because lots and lots of other girls go to seminary. It isn't something she thought of all by herself.

I think that there are moments in time when children are most vulnerable. They DO end up eating a lot of resources, more than the rest of the family, but it's a worthwhile investment. At 18, your daughter is neither here nor there. She's not independent, yet not part of your family. When she comes back, there are expectations to date, to get schooling to get a job, to get a job, to marry, and all of it comes at you very quickly. In Israel, she's on shaky ground, figuring herself out, figuring out what she wants in life.

I very much believe that a child needs to be grounded - and that grounding comes with seeing your family. I think this is a very vulnerable time, and it's important for a mother to go see her daughter. You won't regret it, if you can afford to go, then go! I'm so happy for you! Israel as a mother-daughter bonding time is uniquely special.

amother

Powderblue

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 4:07 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

If circumstances & resources allow, then I agree with you. But in situations where resources are limited, then a parent had to evaluate what is best for all children and not just the one child. If a parent prioritizes one child over the others, then there are ramifications for the other children.

Ideally, the parents should have a conversation around expectations with the child before sending her off.

imaima

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 4:23 pm

amother Powderblue wrote:

Is it set in stone that the other children won’t be visited when they have their year in Israel?
Will the needs of the other kids not be met when their mother is away?

Would OP do it out of an obligation or does she maybe also miss her daughter?

imaima

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 4:26 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

You expressed it better!
It is a vulnerable time.

I mean, if your newborn is crying you give them more attention and not equal with the rest of the kids, because they are more vulnerable.

If you have a kalla, she gets more attention too.
This is the same.

amother

Jasmine

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 5:06 pm

Have you sent kids to seminary in E”Y?

While a great opportunity and a luxury it is indeed a vulnerable time for most girls. If someone can’t visit that’s ok the girls will be fine. No pressure. But it is a big deal to go away for a year and figure out
shabbosim and more hopefully with help.
Definitely worth it
But not to be minimized
My kids did great B”H yet called to check in quite frequently.

And it’s not like they are in some 5 star hotel with every need catered to…nor should they be. And dealing with medical clinics if necessary transportation a different culture etc it can be a great and big stepping stone toward adult independence.
Also they know they are returning home to many changes shidduchim on the horizon etc

amother

Powderblue

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 5:10 pm

imaima wrote:

Actually this has been cause of resentment in many homes. The kids get frustrated when mommy is hardly available for them because she is always busy with the kallah. But that aside, the fact that she will (IY"H) be a kallah soon is all the more reason to focus on the kids now at home.

As parents we need to be able to juggle all our childrens needs, not just one child.

amother

Jasmine

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 5:12 pm

True
But reality is that often one child hopefully for only good reasons needs more attention at certain times

And everyone does not always have to be down to the lowest common denominator
With more responsibilities come more privileges

And moms also deserve a chance to “get away”

amother

Powderblue

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 5:15 pm

amother Jasmine wrote:

I don't disagree. My point is strictly for situations where parents have limited resources. In those cases, the other children's needs shouldn't be sidelined for one child. Barring extenuating circumstances, the dd will be just fine as you yourself said. The rest of the family shouldn't have to forgo their midwinter vacation so that the parents can visit her.

amother

Powderblue

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 5:22 pm

amother Jasmine wrote:

If the mother wants a personal getaway that's a whole other story. That is a tangent.

Of course there are times when one child needs more attention than the others. But even then it needs to be done properly. If dd is not doing ok, then of course mom should head out to help her. But if dd is reportedly doing ok, and presumably having a very good time, why should the rest of the family have to go forgo their vacation.

Even more so, if the daughter will be a kallah shortly thereafter. Not only does this dd get the extra resources this year, the next year's resources will be hers too?

(This kind of thinking makes me rethink the large family argument. If you have a large family, will the resources be prioritized towards the adult children from here on and the younger children will have to do with less? These older children had their time when they were younger, why shouldnt the younger children have the same opportunities, where possible?)

imorethanamother

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 11:38 pm

I kinda find it fascinating that people seem to think it’s the height of entitlement for a girl to go to seminary AND get to see a parent during the year, but flying to a different city with the whole family to a hotel is something you can’t deprive your family of. Because *everyone* goes away it’s just what’s done.

OP isn’t choosing whether to feed her family. She also expressed concern about how well her daughter is doing. Sometimes you really don’t get a handle on how a child truly is until you see them for yourself.

imorethanamother

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 11:40 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

Why is seminary a vulnerable time? It’s one big party, with fancy trips every month or so and a little work thrown in. I don’t think too many girls are thinking of their families outside of the occasional pang by yom tov or other similar times.

It’s not, though. Going through it myself you’d think that’s what it is, but the reality is very different. Little kids have small immediate needs, but kids at this age need a ton of support, both from afar and from close up. It’s hard to describe the turmoil they go through from 17-20.

amother

Jasmine

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 11:51 pm

Powder blue nothing is static and nothing exists in a vacuum.
The younger kids in a large family in many ways can grow up in different situations. Often Many younger kids get to do many things the oldest ones did not. Many factors and multidimensional.
Just nature of reality.
Doesn’t have to be people taking other peoples pie slices. It’s not a contest.
We trust we all get what we need as Hashem Planned.

Bottom line op knows her situation best.

DrMom

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 11:53 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

Almost everybody posting here has been 17-20 before, and not everyone sees the urgent need for a visit from mom. 17-20 is a time for maturing, for gaining some independence. Seminary is a great way to gain some independence but remain in a somewhat supervised environment.

I think a family vacation is the best option, given what information OP has shared.

Rutabaga

Tue, Dec 06 2022, 1:47 am

I wonder if posters are allowing their own seminary experiences to influence their posts here. For those of us who had a positive experience and were not overly homesick or overwhelmed at making so many decisions on our own, it doesn't make sense to us that a newly minted adult needs her mom to visit at the expense of the other children. Perhaps those posters who are so strongly advocating that the mom go check up on the seminary daughter are the ones who had more negative experiences and did feel vulnerable or unsafe at times and could have used some parental help.

There's also a difference in perspective to think about. The daughter who went to seminary left her family to go towards an adventure. She presumably doesn't feel like her family either abandoned her or kicked her out of their home. She might enjoy a visit, although sometimes it feels worse after a visit than with no visit at all like the resurgence in homesickness in sleepaway camps post Visiting Day. Whereas the children at home could feel like the mom is abandoning them to fly off to Israel and leave them home alone and bored for their vacation. It's like the difference between being the spouse going away on a business trip and being the one left behind to hold down the fort. The one who is away is busy and doesn't have time to miss being home but the spouse at home has to juggle extra responsibility and feels the absence all the time.

PinkFridge

Tue, Dec 06 2022, 8:51 am

imorethanamother wrote:

Here's a scenario: Winter break means some vacation time for the family. It's just done every year. And now, because one child is away and not because of r"L illness or the like but as part of the happy progression of life, the rest of the regular family expectations are put on hold?

amother

Peru

Tue, Dec 06 2022, 8:51 am

imorethanamother wrote:

Then maybe they should stay chutz la'aretz. Even if it's not local, it might be an easy plane ride or drive away.

amother

Orchid

Tue, Dec 06 2022, 9:07 am

I’ll offer something I haven’t seen here yet: Do nothing

You said you don’t have enough points to go with the whole family. Maybe save the credit card points so that one day you will. I spent a few years saving up points and now have enough for a very nice vacation with my whole family that will cover flights and hotel.