Husband hitting | Imamother

amother

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 11:06 am

amother Mintgreen wrote:

I have a family member (married into my family, 2nd marriage) who has several children who cut her off (and some who have a bare-minimum relationship with her) because her husband (who is no longer living) was physically abusive to them, and she did not stand up to him and protect them.

Long-term traumatic repercussions to abuse which she thought at the time was "normal" and they'd grow up and be okay.....

This is so so scary. Do you think that a slap is abuse though? SOme people say I am overreacting?
Another mother wrote that that's how parents used to discipline their kids? I don't want to make things worse.

amother

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 11:09 am

BH Yom Yom wrote:

OP, I hugged your last post genuinely. Those comments are disrespectful and invalidating and completely bypass the actual issues. I’m so sorry for what you’re going through.

It's comments like these that make me hesitate seeking help. I am so scared to be blamed. I hate it. I feel self conscious. Every time I have reached out I have received comments that made me want to hide. Even being told "that's men".
It makes me feel like a fool.
But honestly, I dont' live in a vacuum. I know the men around me all over.
Yes I don't know what happens in their homes.
but that's what makes me feel stupid.
It shuts me down.

amother

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 11:10 am

amother IndianRed wrote:

Just a question here. Following this post closely & sending love to OP

Going back to not too long ago, this was the way that a lot of parents raised they're children.

It's traumatic & sad but this is the fact.

So would it have been less traumatizing for the children had they're parents gotten divorced?

So what are you trying to say though? Do you have a solution??

amother

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 11:12 am

amother Cyclamen wrote:

OP, I'm going to be a little open what it's like growing up in a home with physical abuse.
First and foremost is the FEAR. We were always scared. By the time I was a teenager I'd hide out in my room whenever my father was home (B"H there was a lock on the door). He's knock but I would just say I was getting dressed and would never open.
Second was a combination of hate and disrespect. It came to a point where we would do things intentionally even if it meant getting slapped, smacked or beaten. My brothers especially because they had less fear. For example if we were told to do something we didn't want to do we still didn't do it even though we knew we'd get hit. It's the most INEFFECTIVE parenting method.
My mother finally got divorced a couple of years after my first sibling's wedding. I was in high school then. The older kids were able to help my mother do it. While it was embarrassing for us we were all very very glad it was finally over. It was many many years of suffering for our family. Maybe if there were more resources available 40+ years ago my mother could've left after a year instead after 20.
OP, please please don't put your kids through this. Don't listen to all the horrible advice people give you like "kids are flexible". Kids are like clay and every smack leaves a mark. Physical and emotional. As they get older the hitting will only get worse and worse as he will need to hit more often and harder to "control" them. If you can't get support from your community call the organizations that can help. Call TODAY.

That sounds terrible. I'm sorry you went through that.

amother

Mintgreen

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 11:14 am

I want to add something else OP. I'm in a marriage where BH DH was never physically abusive, but he was somewhat emotionally abusive, having been raised in a home where both were a big problem. We have been to therapy (he is very open to help bh) together and separately, we have come a long way.

I was once discussing with my therapist, situations where I have to stand up to DH (like when he was putting one of my children down) and how difficult that is for me (having been taught that a good wife is supposed to always back up her husband in front of the children....) and she (FTR, she is frum, yeshivish, with over 25 years of experience, the wife and daughter of a big Talmid Chacham) told me that abuse is the one exception, it's the area where a wife is supposed to be K'NEGDO - not an aizer. It's the time when you are supposed to stand up and protect them, even if that's opposing him in front of them, to show them it's not okay, and you will not let him do this to them.

She shared something really horrifying with me, but it was to make a point. She said in the early days of her practice she had a client whose husband was severely physically abusive. If his toddler son misbehaved, he would take the poor child by the feet and hold him upside down with his head dangling (he did this when the poor child had an accident). My therapist supported her to stand up to her husband, to oppose him, to tell him she will leave with the child if he does this again, or any other abusive behaviors.

The man called his Rav to report this horrible therapist who is teaching his wife to oppose her husband and disturb their Shalom Bayis. The Rav called her, and she asked him if he has a better way to stop the abuse that was going on. He didn't. He conceded it was the only way.

OP, get yourself to a therapist and learn to stand up to this. And ask the Rav if he has a better way to stop this. Tell him you won't stay in a marriage where this isn't taken seriously.

amother

Sunflower

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 11:17 am

amother OP wrote:

A slap across the face, that leaves a mark, and is done one regular basis, is 100% abuse. Please I beg you, protect your children. It is your responsibility. They may never forgive you for allowing it to happen.
You said that your 5 year old is hitting and hurting himself! That's absolutely terrible and he's suffering from abuse. Protect him. Save him.
Parents used to whip their kids bare bottom with a leather belt. This doesn't make it not abuse. Many kids of that generation, grew up emotionally scarred.

Chayalle

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 11:18 am

amother OP wrote:

Yes, a slap on the face is shaming the Tzelem Elokim that your child was created with.
I didn't make that up. I heard it from R' Mattisyahu Salamon shlitah, mashgiach of BMG.

I might think differently of a light slap on the wrist, even though IMVHO it's not the most effective form of parenting. But absolutely a slap on the face is abuse. 100%, call a spade a spade. Anyone out there who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves to justify abusive behavior.

(and parents used to not have such effective parenting tools. and perhaps the generations were different, but kid yourself not, the haskalah and kids going OTD in droves was affected by the abusive behavior of Rabbeim in the yeshivos, in the previous generations...)

amother

Impatiens

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 12:05 pm

I was in the same type of relationship as OP. My ex husband was also beating my sons and justifying it. I also wanted to be the perfect "aishes chayil". My therapist taught me that there's "hilchos Shabbos" and "hilchos pikuach nefesh" and the latter takes precedence.
When you have to defend your children to protect them from your husband, you just have to do it. Your 5 year old is defenseless and absolutely needs your protection.....poor boy.

I understand you OP, I understand how the comments from other posters who are telling you to leave you to "leave" feel. You have also been abused into thinking that this is normal. It is not.

Please get a therapist who understands abuse to help and support you.

Hatzlocha rabba.

BH Yom Yom

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 12:15 pm

amother OP wrote:

I hear you. Hug

Getting invalidated, shamed and gaslit can make a person question their perspective, their grasp on reality ("maybe it's not really so bad, maybe I just need to try harder to be an aishes chayil, etc.") their emotional rights to safety and support, and their intrinsic worth and value.

EVERYONE, children included, has a right to be safe and supported. We don't always realize that we have that need and that right, especially little kids--they are SO vulnerable and dependent, and they internalize messages about themselves and the world from the behavior of their primary caregivers (DNMS is a good therapy approach for dealing with negative introjects--helped me a lot with trauma from when I was growing up). Your DS is 5 and is already self-harming. Crying

Self-harm is often an early indicator of suicidal ideation. I'm not trying to scare you c"v. The earlier this abuse is stopped, the better off you and your children will be.

You are worth it. They are worth it. I know this is terrifying and overwhelming. Being brave and reaching out for help (and taking action steps as needed, whether that means getting a restraining order against your DH or leaving the house) is the most important thing you can do.

Sending you so much support and encouragement.

amother

Hawthorn

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 1:01 pm

amother OP wrote:

Thanks everyone for your replies.
It's alot to process.
I wish he would be open to hearing from others, I would so be willing to work on things. Everything. The marriage, parenting etc.
I'll have to figure out what I will do next.
On another note, listen to the least helpful comments I've got when trying to consult with wise people:

"With shalom you will get everything"
"you have to respect him"
"It's ok for children to be hit"
"Anyway emotional abuse is worse than physical"
"Well, why did you have more children?" (which also shifts the blame to me)
"That's men"
"You don't have a monopoly over difficult husbands"
"You should see the really bad husbands out there, and then you'd be greatful"
"Just count your blessings"
"I've seen worse"
"kids are flexible"
"are you perfect?"
"look away".

Oy I’m sorry those were the responses you got. But you know the truth. You have so much of us here validating what’s happening and encouraging you to help yourself and your kids. You will find someone who will help you. Don’t stop looking. You see the issue and you’re strong enough to face it. With the help of your therapist and Hashem you will come out of this happier and stronger. Don’t stop trying to make a better life for yourself and your children. Us mothers support you!!

amother

Navy

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 1:39 pm

amother OP wrote:

Wow. Ridiculous . This shows the picture of where most of our society is holding with abuse. This shows HOW important it is to seek help from those who really understand abuse. Perhaps Shalom Task Force should advertise this list with a good one line answer to shut up those phrases so that people should be more aware in general.

Cheiny

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 1:48 pm

amother OP wrote:

You’re unfortunately in denial, and completely minimizing your husband’s behavior.

It’s not a slap when it leaves marks. It’s abuse. No child should be hit, especially that hard!
People with anger issues can lose themselves in a minute and you never know when it will escalate to being a harder hit, with possible real physical harm. Don’t doubt it can happen, your husband is only a heartbeat away from that if he doesn’t immediately get help.

Your children are helpless and have only you to protect them. That’s your main responsibility at this point. I hope you choose to do the right thing and don’t wait until it escalates or it’s too late.

Last edited by Cheiny on Tue, Aug 22 2023, 5:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Kiwi

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 1:51 pm

You got some great advice op.
It is so good you are reaching out for professional therapy to make yourself stronger.
I want to tell you that if you don't put a stop to it you will also lose your children.
They will hate you and have no respect for you because you did not protect them.
So the choice is yours to make.
Just know that every day that you stay you are choosing.
You are going to end up leaving him anyway you may as well do it now.

Cheiny

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 1:51 pm

amother OP wrote:

Stop feeling that and try to stop making it about you. Your task now is to make sure you’re protecting your children going forward.

That means stop listening to unhelpful people, stop worrying what others think, stop rationalizing away your husband’s ABUSIVE behavior, and get your children and yourself help.

And do not let your abusive husband continue to enjoy his marriage and family life as if all is okay, unless and until he gets proper help for his abuse and anger!

Cheiny

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 1:53 pm

amother Mintgreen wrote:

This shouldn’t be a chiddush, it’s common sense. A parent must do anything and everything necessary to protect their children from abuse.