Only 1/5 of the Jews in Mitzrayim left?

GrowingUp

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 2:52 pm

amother Gladiolus wrote:

This was a great mitzva. Logically, this was not the mitzva that brought them up.
They only took over care of those orphans after the parents of those orphans died.
The parents died at the time (plague of darkness) that those who didn’t merit leaving Egypt died. At that time these people were judged worthy to leave and that’s why they didn’t die and that’s why they were still around to take care of the orphans.
I’m sure they had some merit (or maybe they weren’t as deeply involved in sin) but this could not have been the merit. This merit of caring for orphans did not present itself until after the time when those who merited redemption were separated from those who weren’t worthy.

But did all the Jews who didn’t merit the geula die in makkas choshech? I’m pretty sure there were plenty that made it to the time of yetzias mitzrayim, but didn’t actually leave mitzrayim.

Also, matan Torah wasn’t until 49/50 days after yetzias mitzrayim because they were on such a low level when they left. The medrash says that if they would’ve stayed in mitzrayim another day they wouldn’t have merited the geula. That’s why they had to rush out.

amother

Blush

Fri, Mar 22 2024, 2:55 pm

amother Bisque wrote:

This always scares me...maybe an assimilated Jew who keeps Shabbos once is better then me who was brought up frum and I do sin.. Like H-shem expects more from me.. Like who really knows, idk.

Maybe. But if the assimilated Jew kept shabbos once, then I would think he believes in Hashem somewhat. That’s what counts. I may be wrong, but I remember learning something about having emunah and believing in Hashem and in biyas moshiach.

amother

Gladiolus

Sat, Mar 23 2024, 10:47 pm

GrowingUp wrote:

I don’t know where you get that idea you’re pretty sure about. There were zero who made it to midnight after bringing the korban Pesach and didn’t leave. Everyone left in a hurry and with great joy.
You’re right that all the Jews had reached a very low level. We’re told they reached the 49th level of tumah/ impurity. 50 is the point of no return. Those who already reached 50 died during choshech.

AllThings

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 12:37 am

happy7 wrote:

At the end of our galus, even the non-maaminim will be taken out. No one will be left behind! May it be immediately now!!

Do you have a source for this?

amother

Marigold

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 12:44 am

Yeah... not to burst anyone's bubble but I learned in school that only 1/5 of jews will leave our current galus
There was a chazal about Hashem shaking a tablecloth and only 1/5 will be able to cling to it.
It scared me and never left my mind. I don't have the source

BH Yom Yom

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 12:46 am

What I always wonder is how in the world were Dasan and Aviram zoche to leave mitzrayim?

amother

Ecru

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 12:47 am

amother Marigold wrote:

OMG that is horrific!

amother

Dustypink

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 12:50 am

AllThings wrote:

Do you have a source for this?

The Lubavitcher rebbe speaks about it - how every single jew will leave galus

ETA - I found the sicha, couldn’t find it written up in English but if anyone wants the actual sicha I can post.

amother

Currant

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 12:51 am

So why did dasan and aviram merit to leave? My rav says those that merited to leave was because they wanted to leave! They wanted to go! They didn't wax nostalgic over Egypt .

Thisisnotmyreal

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 1:11 am

amother Currant wrote:

So why did dasan and aviram merit to leave? My rav says those that merited to leave was because they wanted to leave! They wanted to go! They didn't wax nostalgic over Egypt .

They were officers out in charge of other Yidden as slaves and they took beatings for Jews.

Thisisnotmyreal

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 1:12 am

Yes it is tragic. It wasn't a complete Geula.

Goldie613

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 5:42 am

GrowingUp wrote:

Esther Kurtz said it over recently in her Parsha for Non-Rebbitzens podcast. I just went back and re listened to it to get it straight.

In short:
Rashi says Chamushim means either A: armed or B: 1/5 of the jews left mitzrayim.

4/5 of Jews died, but none of the kids died. There were a lot of orphans and the rest of klal yisroel took these families with them when they left. Each family that left mitzrayim had 5 families with them, their own plus four families of orphans.

So bnei yisroel were armed with mitzvos/chessed when they left, and they were no longer on the lowest madreiga of tumah anymore.

https://open.spotify.com/episo.....94866

I'm curious - I hadn't realized this idea came from a Rashi. Do other meforshim agree with this idea? Or comment on Rashi's idea? I have a vague recollection that sifsei hachamim usually comments on Rashi, but I don't know if he does or doesn't here.

Elfrida

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 7:19 am

Goldie613 wrote:

Rashi didn't make it up, of course. It comes from a midrash. I was in a shiur recently where she commented that thr definition of a famous midrash is that Rashi quotes it!

Elfrida

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 9:19 am

I've just had a quick look through the chumash, and the first thing is that Rashi only brings this midrash as a דבר אחר. His initial comment explains the word חמושים as armed (someone else explains with five standard types of armaments). The pasuk is at the beginning of Beshalach, where Rashi explains that even though Hashem wanted them to avoid war at this point, they had to know that they were fully equipped if and when necessary.

He then brings, as a davar acher, that חמושים came from חמש, and only one fifth actually left. The pshat is referring to the weapons, but Rashi felt that explanation did not fully explain the use of an unusual word, so he also brings this midrash.

A quick scan of the Mikraot Gedolot shows that the mafarshim there go with the weapons explanation.

amother

Rainbow

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 9:38 am

It's a midrash. Not pshat.

amother

Catmint

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:01 am

amother Dustypink wrote:

I actually learn something really beautiful about this. I can’t remember all the details, but it was about how everyone left left with all of the children of those who died. They basically adopted the remaining children and took them out as part of their families.

It says that the Jews left with chamishim - translated to arms
Each left with 5 families of children (and women) their own plus four orphaned families

amother

Skyblue

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:46 am

The hagadah talks about the nissim, not vice versa.

It does say when talking to the rasha (from the four sons) if you'd be there, you wouldn't be redeemed.

Can you specify your trauma?

amother

Skyblue

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:50 am

and as a ps for every yid that left, there was 4 erev rav that left mitzrayim. Interesting thought that in the end, equal amount left mitzrayim

chicco

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 1:43 am

They were the people who didn't want to leave. Why would the haggadah mention them when the whole point of the night is to focus on those who chose to have a relationship with Hashem?

amother

Narcissus

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 3:53 am

The way I understand it - the decisive factor in which Yid merited to leave, and which was left behind, was not specifically their spiritual madreiga at the time (because, to be honest, most of Am Yisroel had sunk to terrible lows at the time...), but how much they still clung to the desire to leave.
How much they realized/still believed that Mitzrayim was temporary, and that they were destined for greater things and a promised land...

When I look at the landscape of contemporary Jewry, I believe we may be put to a similar test -
There may be Yidden who wear and live all the right trappings of a frum life, but feel very entrenched in TODAY. Life in galus may not be perfect, but it's comfortable, maybe even very comfortable, and it's what they know.
They do not spend much time contemplating the fact that America/London/Zurich/Australia... whatever... is only ever meant to be a temprorary pit-stop, and that Hashem is waiting for us to beg to be brought home.
At the same time, one sometimes comes across Yidden who seem more simple in their knowledge/beliefs/customs...perhaps they didn't attend frum schools, perhaps the women don't dress like halachically observant Jews, perhaps they barely know more than the fact that they are Jews and that we were chosen at Mt. Sinai. But they are proud to be Jews, and strive for a better world...
They have a relationship with Hashem that is alive and strong, and in their inner hearts they want to know Him more... which is the essence of geulah. In all probability, they might be the ones who merit redemption, while "frum" yidden who are completely stuck in today's reality and lack that inner desire, might be left behind... Who knows?
As someone else said - there may be lots of surprises.
Personally, I prefer to go for the promise, as I've heard expressed by several rabbonim (in various shiurim) that at the end of this galus, Hashem will leave no yid behind.
As it says: "Ki lo yidach mimenu nidach..." - even those furthest away will not be abandoned, but saved.
In a talk Rav Mordechai Eliyahou zt"l gave years ago on Tisha BÁv , he asks, how this is possible? Don't we need to teshuva to be saved? And sometimes, that is so so hard... we are so deeply stuck in our ways... and after so many years of golus we are so TIRED!!!
And he responds with the words from Shir HaShirim that say:
"משכני אחריך נרוצה..." - Hashem, please pull us towards You so that we will run...(towards You..)"
In other words - we beg Hashem - PLEASE MAKE US TURN TO YOU.
Help us do teshuva.
Shake us up! Make it happen!!!
The events of this past Simchas Torah let us see clearly how this can play out in real life -
So many estranged Yidden suddenly "found Hashem".
And the rising antisemitism worldwide is having a similar, if less, obvious, effect (we need to hope and pray it will not escalate - but it easily could...)
The Jewish awakening that is happening around the world today is very real and very sudden...
The question we must ask ourselves is:
Must we force Hashem hand, so to speak?
Do we really want to wait until Hashem decides to "resort" to such traumatic tactics?
Were we to run towards Him of our own volition, we would spare ourselves a painful "Pulling"...
Something to think about.
In any event - in my mind, this explanation seems to settle the two opinions.