Do you know what your sons are doing tonight?

amother

Seablue

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:36 am

Librarian wrote:

We have a bottle of wine at the shabbos table. A good one (or so I am told). If there is company we will have one sweet which my husband prefers and one dry which most of the rest of the world prefer. When it's finished that's that. It's not a rule. It's just the way it is. Like if we finish the 4 loaves of challah I buy for shabbos, there isn't any more.

Plenty of people grow up like that and still get drunk at some point. I'm personally not getting the connection here.

I think your kids either a) are terrified of you so they listen b) have gotten drunk and you don't know about it c) don't have friends who drink d) don't like getting drunk

amother

Tan

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:42 am

amother OP wrote:

We asked them for their rav’s number, and they refused to give it to us . Would it have been better if we called the police and got them all arrested for underage drinking? How exactly could we have taken responsibility for kids we don’t know, who weren’t listening to us. I assumed they had a driver waiting for them somewhere on the block / however they got here they would leave.

Absolutely you take responsibility.
There are many options.
Call a Hatzolah member
Call a local medic
Call a local medical professional
To come check the boys out and make sure they are safe.
And no, you do not ask boys in this condition to leave without an adult accompanying them.
They’re kids. Their judgement was of getting this drunk.
You’re an adult. You take responsibility for their well being.
I’m speaking from experience.
Asking them to leave is not ok and as an adult it’s on you to know better, doesn’t matter how upset they’re getting you.
(I am sorry though that they made it hard for you. It’s not ok)

Librarian

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:43 am

amother Seablue wrote:

b)nope
c)they sure do
d)they think getting drunk is disgusting
a)that's what they claim! hope it's true!

amother

Seablue

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:46 am

Librarian wrote:

b)nope
c)they sure do
d)they think getting drunk is disgusting
a)that's what they claim! hope it's true!

Well there you go. They think getting drunk is gross aka they don't like the concept. You are one lucky lady! Now, the rest of us have young men who enjoy the feelings associated with getting drunk and no matter how much you try to get into their sweet heads that they are making a mistake, they will drink too much! Experience will teach them a lot.

Librarian

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:47 am

amother Seablue wrote:

What community do you identify with?

Slightly heimish, torah home. Camp Agudah type. My boys went to the Mir, learned/learning a few years after marriage. My husband is a professional. I have a smart phone and a lace top shaitel but I always wear stockings and sleep in a snood. How's that for reference lol?

amother

Slateblue

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:47 am

Librarian wrote:

Not so lucky for the many boys who try it once an year and then can't stop. Not so lucky for their future wives. And please lets not compare our boys to the secular world.
I guarantee, 100% if getting plastered or smoking/vaping would disqualify a boy from getting into Brisk or the BMG, this problem would dissipate significantly. If girls would care 10% as much about these behaviors as about how many years a boy is planning to learn after marriage, we would cut down on this by far.

And if they would make that rule, Brisk and BMG would be very empty. That's why they don't say that - because they're smart, and they know that #1 rule in parenting is don't make rules that you can't enforce.

Librarian

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:49 am

amother Seablue wrote:

I believe they think it's disgusting because we presented it as such over and over again. But maybe not. Maybe they are just scared of me. Whatever it takes!

amother

Seablue

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:49 am

Librarian wrote:

I must say, that was very well-done. I'm quite familiar with your "type" and your sons are 100% a minority. Do you not hack this out with your friends who have boys? Do you realize that there are plenty of people exactly like you who have very different results when it comes to this?

Librarian

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:50 am

amother Slateblue wrote:

They make many such rules. For example, no smartphone.

amother

Seablue

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:51 am

Librarian wrote:

I believe they think it's disgusting because we presented it as such over and over again. But maybe not. Maybe they are just scared of me. Whatever it takes!

I think they are just not the type to drink very much. There are plenty of boys I know from homes very similar to yours who have gotten completely wasted on Purim. This is totally a your-boys-thing. Of course an influence of yours in there as well. But your boys are just not the drinking type, One glass yes, but not more than that.

amother

Seablue

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:52 am

Librarian wrote:

They make many such rules. For example, no smartphone.

Well, that's a rule that is very clearly defined. Are these boys allowed to make kiddush on wine? Are they ever allowed a glass?

Once you allow some of it, it's difficult to uphold all of it. Your vision is not realistic.

amother

RosePink

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:52 am

Librarian wrote:

All you can do is your best. Reading through this thread it does not seem like much effort is being made. Very defeatist.
From a very young age we took every opportunity that arose to point out how bad drinking and smoking is. In fact, I remember being in a shoe store with my oldest son who did not even have his upsherin yet. The salesman was smoking (this was many moons ago) and my son pointed to him and said in a very loud voice "that man is going to die!". We explained over and over how some people start drinking or smoking and can never stop and that there is no way to know who would have that problem so we can never start. Until my boys were older and could understand nuances better, we only used grapejuice for kiddush. Once they got older, my husband switched to wine and we will use ONE bottle of a good wine for shabbos. NO liquour EVER, except for their bar mitzvah and aufruf kiddush. We have a happy home. Very into sports and camp etc. Pretty much we had one major rule (technically 2) NO Drinking, NO smoking. Not that hard to follow.

My youngest son who is 23 and does not drink or smoke or vape will tell me how common it is. He thinks it's no big deal. So I asked him so why don't you? He said straight out "because you scared the hell out of me" lol.

I also have a few sons. Baruch Hashem one of them will do anything he knows I don't like because his personality is to test boundaries, take risks, and assert his independence.
It's totally personality based. My other sons won't touch a cigarette or alcohol. I taught them all from a very young age. It's still not foolproof.

amother

Seablue

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:54 am

amother RosePink wrote:

This exactly. It's parenting and personality here.

Librarian

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:56 am

amother Seablue wrote:

One thing about me, I really really try to keep my eyes on my own plate. At least regarding my kids. I am sure I have some friends who look down on my boys because they did not even want to go to Brisk, Pragers etc and did not want to learn long term. I am sure I have some friends who wish their sons would be like mine. In real life I NEVER talk about my sons not drinking or smoking. I try not to talk about my children at all. That's what Imamother is for!

Last edited by Librarian on Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:56 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Snow

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:56 am

OP, what yeshiva is this that has their 9th grade dormers in Yeshiva for Purim? I would guess almost every yeshiva in the country nowadays sends home their dormers - it's usually non negotiable if they're in 9th grade. Sounds like their may be some information missing from this story

Librarian

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:58 am

amother RosePink wrote:

For sure. But we have GOT to try. Good for you!

Librarian

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 1:01 am

amother Seablue wrote:

I am so sorry, and I wish I could think of a more polite way to say it, but this sounds lazy to me.
We have to try our best. The results may not always work out the way we prefer but the effort must be made.

amother

Seablue

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 1:02 am

Librarian wrote:

I wasn't referring to discussing your kids yeshivos. Just regular purim stuff. Like you never had a convo with someone similar to you about their concerns of drinking on Purim? this is just something that comes up for many people even at the shabbos table.

Librarian

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 1:03 am

amother Seablue wrote:

What do you mean by homes like mine? Where the parents take such a strong stand as we did?