People who can barely afford basics are not middle class.

Cheiny

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 5:12 pm

amother OP wrote:

If you're jealous of poor people who receive help, you're not middle class, you're also poor, only above the official poverty line.

I agree. I don’t think some people understand what middle class is,

amother

↑ Pansy

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 5:22 pm

Cheiny wrote:

I agree. I don’t think some people understand what middle class is,

Middle class is not a state of being it’s an income level! Why do people not get this.

amother

↑ Celeste ↓

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 5:38 pm

amother Blushpink wrote:

Curious what we consider the "poverty line" here.

We are a family of 13 making over $120k. To be at the federal poverty limit, we'd need to be making under $80k.

To be eligible for food stamps, you would need to make under 150k (for that family size) . I think that we all agree that food stamp eligibility makes you "poor", so yes, you are poor. Not middle class.

meyerlemon44

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 5:43 pm

Cheiny wrote:

I agree. I don’t think some people understand what middle class is,

I think some disagreement stems from the fact that middle class used to mean you were comfortable. Today the cost of living is so high that they no longer have that comfortable cushion, even though they’re making comparable incomes adjusted for inflation to the last generation of the middle class.

amother

Khaki

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 5:57 pm

If your talking about the government definition, your right.

If your talking about earning power, comfort, stress levels, I think your wrong. The lower middle class can feel 'poorer' than poor people.

I've stood behind women in the grocery store buying meat and packages of beef jerky with a food stamps card, while my 'middle class's, no government funding, no tzedaka money shopping cart has beans, zucchini, and pasta. Who's 'poorer'?

amother

Trillium ↓

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 6:17 pm

Family of 7, earning 230k between 2 full time salaries. Excellent health insurance at very affordable rates. We purchased a home 12 years ago so mortgage/interest is very affordable. Baruch Hashem.

Even with relatively lower expenses and a very decent income, we live very frugally. We qualify for tuition breaks because by the time we pay fixed expenses, taxes, and basics, there is not much left over.

At this income level, 11k hits the bank after taxes and payroll deductions each month. 4k of that 11k is tuition, 2k is housing, 2k is car payments, utilities, and insurances. That leaves 3k for everything else and there is a lot of everything else. We are certainly not able to spend comfortably.

When we were young newlyweds getting food stamps, medicaid, and energy assistance, we ate much better....

amother

↑ Blushpink ↓

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 6:23 pm

amother Celeste wrote:

Ironically, we aren't actually eligible for food stamps. Need to try to apply for WIC.

amother

↑ Celeste ↓

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 6:26 pm

amother Blushpink wrote:

Ironically, we aren't actually eligible for food stamps. Need to try to apply for WIC.

Look at the charts. If you are making 120k with a family of 13, you are eligible.

amother

Cappuccino

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 6:28 pm

amother Trillium wrote:

Your paying 8k in taxes a month? Do you get a tax refund when you file taxes?

amother

↑ Blushpink

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 6:30 pm

amother Celeste wrote:

Look at the charts. If you are making 120k with a family of 13, you are eligible.

Not if your bochurim are learning in OOT yeshiva.

amother

↑ Celeste

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 6:31 pm

amother Blushpink wrote:

Not if your bochurim are learning in OOT yeshiva.

Right, they don't count. So sorry, I missed that!

amother

Yellow

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 6:32 pm

amother OP wrote:

If you're jealous of poor people who receive help, you're not middle class, you're also poor, only above the official poverty line.

So your rubbing it in that they are poor but just "rich" enough not to qualify for assistance.

amother

↑ Trillium

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:42 pm

amother Cappuccino wrote:

Your paying 8k in taxes a month? Do you get a tax refund when you file taxes?

No. Taxes and deductions.

Federal
State
FICA
Medicare tax
SUI tax
Probably other tax I'm forgetting
Health insurance premiums
HSA deductions
FSA deductions
401k for each of us (they match so we'd lose double if we didnt contribute)
Disability insurance
Dental insurance
Vision insurance (big glasses family here)
Mandatory pension deductions (DH is a government employee)

The deductions really add up...

amother

Babypink

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:45 pm

amother OP wrote:

If you're jealous of poor people who receive help, you're not middle class, you're also poor, only above the official poverty line.

So then we don't have much of a middle class. We have below the poverty line poor, above the poverty line poor, wealthy and a small group of middle class.

In the average society, there is a normal distribution. Small groups of poor and rich on either end, with a larger middle class group.

The fact that we don't have such a distribution highlights that we have serious problems within our setup.