Obama Blasts Agriprocessors!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shirley

Tue, Aug 26 2008, 3:19 am

Politicians worship at the alter of success and will bow to no Higher Power, unless the photo op will give them higher power. (Apparently I don't have much faith in politics. Very Happy

Gee, I wonder why?)

Obama is most likely not Muslim at this point. At least not faithfully. But I don't for one moment buy that he is Christian. But his advisors who thought that would make him a more likely contender obviously knew what they were doing. Some very smart people (as I can tell on this board) seem to be falling for a ratings ploy.

Wake up people! Politicians are lots of things. But one thing they usually are not - is that that they say they are. Do your own research.

HindaRochel

Tue, Aug 26 2008, 3:23 am

Bambamama wrote:

HindaRochel wrote:

Bambamama wrote:

chavamom wrote:

HindaRochel wrote:

There is nothing racist in saying he was raised, at least for a period of time, Muslim.

Except that it would be a falsehood. But not racist, correct.

He was known to pray regularly at a mosque as a child. Sounds like someone raised Muslim, but you can call him whatever you want. In any case, Muslims consider him Muslim.

Not all I don't think, but some would.

Of course, there are all types... But the ones who stick to Muslim "halacha" would.

I believe you are correct.
That would not be a reason, imho, to vote for the other guy, it would be reason to make certain that were he in a Muslim country as president that security should be extremely tight.

Bambamama

Tue, Aug 26 2008, 3:37 am

I do not believe he is a practicing Muslim, but I will tell you why we know he was raised a Muslim. His friends and family considered him to be a Muslim, he was registered in school as a Muslim (meaning he learned about the Islamic religion in school for a certain amount of hours every week), he prayed in a Muslim mosque... his name Hussein, shows that he is paternally from a line of Muslims.... His mother, incidentally, remarried a Muslim after divorcing Obama's father... I guess she had a thing for Muslim guys, or she wanted to keep the kid in a Muslim environment...

So he wasn't frum... Let's hope he doesn't do teshuva. In any case, due to his conversion, he is considered an apostate by observant Muslims.

Chavamom, I don't think you should call people ignorant.

Bambamama

Tue, Aug 26 2008, 3:39 am

HindaRochel wrote:

Bambamama wrote:

HindaRochel wrote:

Bambamama wrote:

chavamom wrote:

HindaRochel wrote:

There is nothing racist in saying he was raised, at least for a period of time, Muslim.

Except that it would be a falsehood. But not racist, correct.

He was known to pray regularly at a mosque as a child. Sounds like someone raised Muslim, but you can call him whatever you want. In any case, Muslims consider him Muslim.

Not all I don't think, but some would.

Of course, there are all types... But the ones who stick to Muslim "halacha" would.

Believe me, if he becomes US president, security will be extremely tight as well. There are plenty of angry Muslims in the US who consider him an apostate.

chavamom

Tue, Aug 26 2008, 3:56 am

HindaRochel wrote:

chavamom wrote:

HindaRochel wrote:

There is nothing racist in saying he was raised, at least for a period of time, Muslim.

Except that it would be a falsehood. But not racist, correct.

Not a falsehood. He was listed as a Muslim on his school records in Indonesia. He does not consider himself Muslim now, and considering he was in Church for 20 years I doubt that he is Muslim. Quite a long time for pretense.

I also don't see anything vile about saying he was schooled in the Koran or was at one period of time, for a short period of time to be certain, considered a Muslim.

It would have made me more inclined to vote for him rather than the opposiste, if I felt he was basically honest and trustworthy. But I do not feel that way about him.

I think he will create harm to the USA.

and I agree with regarding Bambamama her response to this passage:

Quote:

"When you read about a meatpacking plant hiring 13-year-olds, 14-year-olds – that is some of the most dangerous, difficult work there is. … They have kids in there wielding buzz saws and cleavers? It’s ridiculous. And the only reason they’re hiring these folks is because they want to avoid paying people decent wages and providing them decent benefits.”
-Barack Hussein Obama

if saying his middle name is code for being a terrorist then saying what Obama said could be considered as code for saying Jews don't want to pay a fair wage.

We hear many sides to this story. Many people who were arrested have quite a different story to tell. Can the case go to trial before judgement?

Can you please show me where his school records show he is a Muslim? And yes, I believe they might b/c as mentioned, Muslims consider anyone born of a Muslim father Muslim, no matter how many times his FATHER might have renounced it. My point was that if his mother was Jewish we would be saying he is Jewish was to make a point - since when to we posken by Islamic law? According to them he should be an infidel b/c he is a Muslim practicing Christianity! So are we shouting from the roof-tops he's an infidel? No, of course not. This whole "he's a closet Muslim" business is racism cloaked in pseudo-technicalities based on Islams understanding of the world - and we want to claim that as the "emes"? B/c it seems the frum world is ready to get into bed with conspiracy theorists and racists in order to discredit Obama and *that* I find shocking.

HindaRochel

Tue, Aug 26 2008, 4:09 am

chavamom wrote:

His school records list him as Muslim. I really don't care.

The issue of him being an apostate has been raised by others, I've seen it several times in various places,with the concern being that he would become a more likely target than someone of a different faith or presumably who was Muslim.
My response was that: we can't go by what others think, we need to elect the person we think will best take care of the USA and her concerns.

I do not think that person is Obama, for many reasons. I don't like his policies, and I do not think he is honest or trustworthy. While I realize most politicians are not totally forthright, I think he goes way beyond the smiles and I'm there for you type of politicing of most.

I have not said he was a closet Muslim; others have but as you are quoting me please state my correct position. I doubt sincerely he is a Muslim. Al-taquiya can only go so far I would think, and this would take some preplanning and sinking a great deal on a very iffy propisition.

Facts are facts and trying to deny them or pull the prejudice card is a distraction and nothing more than sleight of hand politicing.
And yes, if his mother were Jewish we would consider him Jewish; but Muslims would not. We are only a small portion of the world, and our voices are quite small in the end.

Stating facts isn't conspiracy; it really is irrelevant to me what he practices, or even if he practices: actions speak louder than words. It seems to me that the conspiracy theorist are those who continuously promote him and use the race card as a weapon whenever confronted with their putated candidates faults.

Bambamama

Tue, Aug 26 2008, 4:13 am

chavamom wrote:

Actually, he went to a secular school where no one imposed any religion on him. They allowed for students to select one of "one of five state-sanctioned religions when registering: Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic or Protestant," according to an article from the AP. As a Muslim he received a supplemental Islamic education at the school -- BY CHOICE.

chavamom

Tue, Aug 26 2008, 4:15 am

Um, what faults am I reputing with the racist card? I'm saying that to call him a closet Muslim (which others most certainly have) or other such claims smacks of racism. I'm horrified that much of the frum velt has jumped on this bandwagon. Disagree with his policies if you want, refute his ideas, but to try to discredit him as a "Muslim" is just...well, it would probably be a violation of board rules to say what I think of that. It certainly doesn't reflect well on those who promote the idea.

chavamom

Tue, Aug 26 2008, 4:18 am

Bambamama wrote:

chavamom wrote:

And whose choice was it to send him to Catholic school as well? Opps! His parents forgot he was Muslim! Forget it - this is going no where.

HindaRochel

Tue, Aug 26 2008, 4:21 am

chavamom wrote:

You wrote it in response to my post. I distinctly said I did not beleive he was a closet Muslim.
Moreover it comes up whenever anyone brings up something agianst Obama. Or any time someone uses his middle name. Or anytime anyone states an issue regarding his past.

Why does calling him a closet Muslim smack of racism? Does that mean being Muslim is something to be ashamed of? And how is being a Muslim racist? People of all colors are Muslims. What if someone believes that; it only means they feel that he is lying about his religion. There are Muslims who believe he is really a Muslim and practicing al-Taquiya. Are they being racist?

It could either be a hatred of Muslims, which I think is sad and prejudicial, or it could be the opposite; the belief that Muslims are superior which is also sad.

But it isn't racism.

HindaRochel

Tue, Aug 26 2008, 4:27 am

chavamom wrote:

Bambamama wrote:

chavamom wrote:

And whose choice was it to send him to Catholic school as well? Opps! His parents forgot he was Muslim! Forget it - this is going no where.

And? So what? He was thus educated as a Muslim, by choice of his parents, for a period of time. He then went to Catholic school. Was he excused from religious classes as many children of different faiths were? Or did he learn Catholicism?

Bambamama

Tue, Aug 26 2008, 4:32 am

chavamom wrote:

Bambamama wrote:

chavamom wrote:

And whose choice was it to send him to Catholic school as well? Opps! His parents forgot he was Muslim! Forget it - this is going no where.

The Catholic school was one where all religions attended.

This is from Nedra Pickler of the AP:

At first, Obama attended the Catholic school, Fransiskus Assisis, where documents showed he enrolled as a Muslim, the religion of his stepfather. The document required that each student choose one of five state-sanctioned religions when registering – Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic or Protestant.

So to answer your question, or rather your sarcasm, no his parents did not forget he was a Muslim, They were very much aware as they checked off Muslim on that document.

Bambamama

Tue, Aug 26 2008, 4:37 am

HindaRochel wrote:

chavamom wrote:

Bambamama wrote:

chavamom wrote:

And whose choice was it to send him to Catholic school as well? Opps! His parents forgot he was Muslim! Forget it - this is going no where.

I don't know whether he learned Catholicism, but by proclaiming himself a Muslim on the registration, he received a supplemental Muslim education.