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Going out of my mind from 7 year old who doesnt GO TO SLEEP
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, May 13 2024, 9:54 pm
Guys he's still up
It's almost 1am
That means my day tomorrow is gone because he'll wake up late and miss the bus, I'm not going to wake him after 7 hours of sleep
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mha3484




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 13 2024, 9:55 pm
I read your post again and if he is really struggling that its impacting his functioning Id consider some sort of therapy for his anxiety. There are also sleep specialists for kids (MD’s not a woman who took a course) that may have some insight.
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, May 13 2024, 9:57 pm
mha3484 wrote:
I read your post again and if he is really struggling that its impacting his functioning Id consider some sort of therapy for his anxiety. There are also sleep specialists for kids (MD’s not a woman who took a course) that may have some insight.


Idk where to go for therapy. I wasted most of last year with a dumb play therapist. Just got him a good one but she won't work on these kind of skills, it's more play and feelings. I can't drive him anywhere after school like it needs to be walkable and local.
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mha3484




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 13 2024, 9:59 pm
For anxiety CBT is the gold standard. My 9 year old (also high anxiety) has sleeping in his bed issues and someone gave me a name recently of a cbt therapist who really helped her kid.
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Imabubby60




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 13 2024, 11:02 pm
A great therapist is definitely needed, but it's so hard to find, they're one in a thousand. Ask in your community. Also, is he eating natural whole foods? It has the potential to help dramatically.
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flyakite




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 14 2024, 12:26 am
You need to address the PANDAS.
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shachachti




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 14 2024, 4:03 am
The poor kid.
Its horrible to not be able to fall asleep and have spinning thoughts on top of that too.
Its so lonely.

Does he fall asleep better when a human is with him in the bed?

Some of my kids only fall asleep if there's another human breathing slowly next to them.
I can't do this every night obviously.

I also want to take a moment and validate your frustration. Its hard.
If I don't give my children melatonin they would easily be up till 4 am.
Not sure why their biological clocks are off kilter.

I think that some of the frustration might come from trying too many things and feeling hopeless.

Cutting him off this food and that food and trying every herb is nice but it doesn't have a major track record to really help.
It simply exhausts the mother that has to be on top of it.


The only thing that bothers me with your post is that you're calling him crazy.
Can you please remove it because I feel sad for this child that he is spoken about in such a way.

Good luck!


Last edited by shachachti on Tue, May 14 2024, 4:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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flyakite




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 14 2024, 4:06 am
Also, check for pinworms and cut out sugar.
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amother
Honeysuckle


 

Post Tue, May 14 2024, 4:31 am
flyakite wrote:
You need to address the PANDAS.
Agree with this. Therapy can't get rid of brain inflammation
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amother
Hydrangea


 

Post Tue, May 14 2024, 4:37 am
amother OP wrote:
I can give myself shame and judgment just fine


There was no shame and judgement in my post. Your feelings are completely valid and I think pretty much everyone would feel the same way. I was adding to your post - this situation is extremely challenging for you. And imagine how challenging it must be for him! That's all.
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amother
Daffodil


 

Post Tue, May 14 2024, 5:31 am
mha3484 wrote:
For anxiety CBT is the gold standard. My 9 year old (also high anxiety) has sleeping in his bed issues and someone gave me a name recently of a cbt therapist who really helped her kid.

Someone told me if the kid has pandas cbt doesn’t work
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amother
Pansy


 

Post Tue, May 14 2024, 5:47 am
amother OP wrote:
Guys he's still up
It's almost 1am
That means my day tomorrow is gone because he'll wake up late and miss the bus, I'm not going to wake him after 7 hours of sleep


If this was my kid, I would wake him up anyway. If not, he'll sleep late and then go to sleep late the next night. I find a direct correlation between the 2.

My first baby would be up later and later until he was going to sleep at 3am and then sleep till 12pm. It was crazy! The only thing that worked was waking him up at a normal hour so he was up enough and was tired at a normal time.

Yes, if was a crazy cranky week but after it was much better.

Did you try playing calm soothing music? Look on YouTube. There are tons of tracks of really calm music. I use something called Delta Waves - it literally calms the brain. Helps me with brain fog.
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realsilver




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 14 2024, 6:35 am
Did you try inositol for the anxiety?
Lemon balm is great as well.

You should definitely go the route is treating the pandas and anxiety because this is crazy. Poor kid. And poor you!!
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amother
Starflower


 

Post Tue, May 14 2024, 6:40 am
This book might help "Breaking free of childhood anxiety and OCD"
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amother
Smokey


 

Post Tue, May 14 2024, 6:58 am
Op it sounds like you're very busy at night and that doesn't help his anxiety. Are you able to get a neighborhood girl to watch your baby while you spend one on one time with him uninterrupted? Read him a book and lay down next to him. Give him melatonin an hour before she comes.
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amother
Almond


 

Post Tue, May 14 2024, 7:06 am
My DD10 has been struggling with insomnia, anxiety, fears, ADHD, Misophonia, and super picky eating (maybe ARFID) for years. Bedtime was torture, total torture. Terrified to stay alone, up for hours, in and out of bed, waiting up for her much older sister to go to bed, etc.

We'd tried various treatments (including melatonin) without much success. Recently we went to a psychiatrist who put her on low doses of prozac and aripiprazole.

We were mainly trying to treat the anxiety and misophonia but it had a fantastic side effect: she goes to sleep like a dream!! We can't get over it! If I don't catch her early enough to get ready for bed she'll fall asleep on the couch.

I have to say that it was very hard for us to come to terms with the fact that she needs these types of medications but after a couple of weeks she said to me: finally we found something that helps me, I'm so much happier. And then I knew that we had made the right choice.
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amother
Smokey


 

Post Tue, May 14 2024, 12:58 pm
amother Almond wrote:
My DD10 has been struggling with insomnia, anxiety, fears, ADHD, Misophonia, and super picky eating (maybe ARFID) for years. Bedtime was torture, total torture. Terrified to stay alone, up for hours, in and out of bed, waiting up for her much older sister to go to bed, etc.

We'd tried various treatments (including melatonin) without much success. Recently we went to a psychiatrist who put her on low doses of prozac and aripiprazole.

We were mainly trying to treat the anxiety and misophonia but it had a fantastic side effect: she goes to sleep like a dream!! We can't get over it! If I don't catch her early enough to get ready for bed she'll fall asleep on the couch.

I have to say that it was very hard for us to come to terms with the fact that she needs these types of medications but after a couple of weeks she said to me: finally we found something that helps me, I'm so much happier. And then I knew that we had made the right choice.

Kol hakavod for doing the right thing for your child!!

Bh those medications are around for a reason and there's no reason to feel guilty to use them when needed.
Of course, we all wish our kids would manage without but if situation is not normal and meds can help, it would be cruel to withhold them from our children.

I have a friend whose child has adhd and was getting in trouble in school on a daily basis for years before she was willing to try meds...
Insomnia is really hard to deal with. Anxiety too.
I'm so happy it worked for you!
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amother
Daylily


 

Post Tue, May 14 2024, 4:04 pm
I think you'll just need a multi-pronged approach here.

All the other issues aside first, your child sounds jet lagged. You don't need to go to a different time zone to become jetlagged, his sleep schedule is off. Wake him up at the same time every day (even if he only got a few hours of sleep) including the weekends, and take him outside for several minutes of morning sun light right after he gets up. Make sure he gets adequate exercise during the day, not within 2 hours of bedtime though. And then put him to bed at the same time every night, whether he falls asleep or not. Eventually, having this schedule will move earlier, it can take a a few days or weeks. This isn't going to fix everything on its own but it will help.

However, I think you also need to address the anxiety, through medication and therapy (licensed child psychologist). Anxiety can really prevent sleep. And maybe get him checked out for OCD.

Try some mindfulness before bed, sitting still like a frog is a wonderful book and cd of mindfulness for kids, it helped our daughter fall asleep faster at night when her brain and body would just not calm down for rest. Again, it won't solve everything, but may will things.

Something lavender scented can help too (psychiatrist told me this), get lavender soap or shampoo, or lavender essential oil, have it in his bed room.

Lastly, behaviorally, get an ok to wake clock (turns green when they are allowed to get out of bed, may also help wak them up in the morning) and make a rewards chart for your child staying in bed until the light is green in the morning. For any time he comes out, do the silent return to bed where there is no talking or eye contact or attention, just bring him back to bed, it can take many many times and many hours, but a few days of it will make a big difference.

Try all of the above and give it a little time and hopefully you will see results.
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amother
Almond


 

Post Wed, May 15 2024, 10:28 am
amother Smokey wrote:
Kol hakavod for doing the right thing for your child!!

Bh those medications are around for a reason and there's no reason to feel guilty to use them when needed.
Of course, we all wish our kids would manage without but if situation is not normal and meds can help, it would be cruel to withhold them from our children.

I have a friend whose child has adhd and was getting in trouble in school on a daily basis for years before she was willing to try meds...
Insomnia is really hard to deal with. Anxiety too.
I'm so happy it worked for you!


Thank you for the chizuk!
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amother
Rose


 

Post Wed, May 15 2024, 10:50 am
I would definitely wake my child up after 7 hours of sleep.
So at least he should be tired the next night to fall asleep by 9:30, you are enabling him otherwise too

Motza shobbas my kids all go to sleep 11, .
Until we make havdalah and they shower..
Of course I wake them at 8 to get to school on time sunday.
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