Introducing a girl to shul -- any tips?

amother

Wed, May 15 2024, 12:01 pm

(Yes, I'm the poster who started the other thread, but since they're very different questions, I figured I'd post them separately.)

My 8 year old daughter has only been to shul for very short periods of time -- Parshas Zachor, shofar, things like that. I just found out I'll have the opportunity to start bringing her to shul for a short amount of time, maybe 20 minutes or so, each week for a couple of months.

Trying to figure out what makes the most sense to do. What part of davening do you think I should bring her for? I can't make it for the very beginning, which is what she davens in shul. It would have to be chazaras hashatz, or leining, or mussaf.

Also, how can I prep her beforehand? The shul is very big on not speaking during davening (which I love about it), and while it would obviously be fine for me to whisper instructions or answers here and there, I'd like to limit that if I can.

I'd love any input from moms who have done this before. Any advice? I've always had a hard time in shul (ADHD, not growing up with it so feeling lost), and I'd really like to make it a positive experience for her. She's excited about it, so that's good.

amother

Wed, May 15 2024, 12:16 pm

amother RosePink wrote:

Mussaf! It’s short, it’s a great way to introduce her to the tefillah of mussaf, she gets to daven herself and hear chazaras hashatz, and most importantly, she gets to leave shul with everyone else at the same time, feeling like she did it, and there’s the social aspect too.

How long would you estimate it takes to daven mussaf and hear chazaras hashatz? I really only have about twenty minutes, even though the timing is flexible. (Haven't been to shul in years, but I feel like just the quiet mussaf would take up half the time.)

Also, I should have specified her age. She's 8 and in second grade. Her kriyah skills are very good, but reading through all of mussaf herself might be hard at this point. So maybe it makes the most sense for it to be chazaras hashatz? How long does that take? (Is it longer or shorter than chazaras hashatz of shacharis?)

Thanks everyone for your help in figuring this out...I know it seems like a little thing, but it's a big help for me.

Elfrida

Wed, May 15 2024, 12:24 pm

amother OP wrote:

Also, I should have specified her age. She's 8 and in second grade. Her kriyah skills are very good, but reading through all of mussaf herself might be hard at this point. So maybe it makes the most sense for it to be chazaras hashatz? How long does that take? (Is it longer or shorter than chazaras hashatz of shacharis?)

Practice. Take a couple of weeks before you go to shul to daven Mussaf with her at home. It's a short tefillah, and you can read it in Hebrew and with the translation together. Get an interlinear siddur, to make it easy to match the words to the translation.
Read through the Artscroll commentary, or any other commentary of your choice so you can examine it to her.

Incidentally, you are probably going to have to be a bit flexible about what you go for. Most shuls don't run to an exact schedule, and if you get there at a given time you might catch the end of the leining and the haftarah one week, and mussaf the next.

amother

Birch

Wed, May 15 2024, 2:38 pm

Do you live next to shul that you’ll know when they’re up to the part you want to take her for? If not, the later in davening you go the more variation there is in timing because the baal tefila takes longer or shorter on any given week and leining is shorter or longer etc. So I wouldn’t stress so much about which part is best becaue it’s hard to control and just appreciate that you and she will have a few minutes there whenever it is. At 8 she can say as much as she wants to and sit and listen the rest of the time. I would explain how kedusha and responding to Kaddish works, show her in the siddur in advance and everything else you can point her along as you go.

amother

Moonstone

Wed, May 15 2024, 2:52 pm

I’d say chazarah of shachris and some of leining. It’s something she could follow along.

Are there other girls her age?
Maybe it’s time for the shul to make a girl’s group.
The groups in our shul are split
K-3 grade in one group and 4 and up in another group.
K-3 Daven, Parsha, Questions, Game, Prizes. This is ran by highschool girls.

4 & up- Daven, 1girl is picked each week to give over a devar Torah, then they come into shul for Sefer Torah, then they go back to the classroom for Mussaf and raffle.
They also meet up in the afternoon for a special class with the Morah.

I don’t know if this is done where you live
I live OOT

amother

Wed, May 15 2024, 2:54 pm

amother Birch wrote:

Thank you! This last bit is really helpful. I'll tell her about kedusha, kaddish, and also Boruch Hu Uvaruch Shemo and amein....anything else? I'm sorry, it's literally been about two decades since I've been in a shul for more than a few minutes (besides megillah).

amother

Wed, May 15 2024, 2:56 pm

amother Moonstone wrote:

4 & up- Daven, 1girl is picked each week to give over a devar Torah, then they come into shul for Sefer Torah, then they go back to the classroom for Mussaf and raffle.
They also meet up in the afternoon for a special class with the Morah.

I don’t know if this is done where you live
I live OOT

No, I'm pretty sure the shul wouldn't do that. We do have bnos groups, and a Pirkei Avos group going on right now, but both in the afternoon. They do have something that pairs up girls who want to daven (but whose mothers can't come due to younger kids at home) with older girls/women who can sit next to them and help them. But the shul has a very serious davening, so I doubt they'd go for a slew of girls coming in for kriyas hatorah. The goal is that they should come in when they're ready to daven quietly and seriously. Which is why I think that 20 minutes or so is good for her, but longer wouldn't be good even if I could pull it off...

dena613

Wed, May 15 2024, 3:09 pm

Kabbalas shabbos (if its the type of shul that has women then)
Because it's short and lots of singing and getting into a positive spirit for shabbos

Mussaf chazaras hashatz
Teach her about the importance of amein, amein yehei shmei rabba, and kedusha. Its worth it to go to shul for one kaddish!!!
Chazaras hashatz was really meant for people (like your daughter) who couldn't daven the shmone esrei, so it's perfect for her!!
Also, there's a tune to the tefillah, so as she gets older, the words will be familiar to her and she'll be able to daven her own mussaf more easily

amother

Skyblue

Mon, May 20 2024, 5:23 am

amother OP wrote:

If she can do 20 min, come 20 min before the end of davening. It will be at some point of mussaf in on average "yeshivish" shul with a bunch of kaddishes at the end as well. If its more jpf, still good as lots of singing of things, some of which she already knows.

You can teach her to answer to kaddish if she doesnt already know, super important! there are a bunch at the end of davening and its the first thing to teach kids. Teach her that they are repeating brachos at chazoros hashatz, show her in the siddur, and prompt amein.
If youre coming before modim, you can show her how to respond if she wants, thats fun.

Unless your school is different, girls in 2nd grade have not even learned shemona esrei! There is very little of davening she is familiar w. Leining is "boring" for most little kids and part that fills in last when they start to lengthen their time in shul.

Is this your oldest? Have you done this w a boy?
Honestly, 2nd grade is young and most boys and girls I know that age are home or coming for the very end of davening as described (in shuls that frown on running around - but my sample is mostly Lakewood and a few oot cities). We started our boys as described abovd as they showed interest in 2nd, 3rd 4th grade depending on the kid. Most of my boys were not in shul for the entire davening until 12 or so (would go back and forth from home).
Introduction to shul for our boys was usually mincha on shobbos. The older the are the more they can follow and stay for shachris.

My girls showed no interest until 4th grade or so. I would send with grandmothers when they came. If here and there they wanted to go younger I would send at the end. By 4th grade theyve learned most of the davening, can pick up mussaf, and can be in shul a lot longer and can easily keep up w help at any part.
For my girls the first long time in shul for most of them would be going on yomim noraim w older neighbors for my oldests and big sisters for the rest. We start off with the "exciting parts" and add on w interest.

Key to interest is their SKILL LEVEL!