The Nisayon of Struggling to Pay Tuition

cassandra

Wed, Sep 24 2008, 8:24 pm

And many of the Americans I know who have moved to Israel recently are still caught up in the materialism. They still try to maintain the lifestyle they had here to the greatest extent possible (though the reality is that the lifestyle costs much less to maintain in Israel.) I don't think it's a given that once you moved to Israel that all melts away, it very much depends are where you move, who your crowd is, and what your expectations are.

btMOMtoFFBs

Wed, Sep 24 2008, 8:26 pm

costanza, I hear what you're saying. Most people in this thread are just saying they can't afford material things b/c they are financially strapped.

If you can afford them, B"H. Its important to dress like a Bas Melech. It's important to feel put together when you step out of your home (and even in your home).

Most people weren't saying that is bad. Most people are just frustrated that having a few nice, new material things is a luxury.

When that's the case, you just re-frame and work on NOT wanting things. I avoid the mall because I don't want to see all the beautiful clothes and shoes that I just can't buy myself right now.

If you can afford it and it doesn't take over your life to always have everything the best. Well, so what's the problem?

mimivan

Wed, Sep 24 2008, 8:36 pm

costanza wrote:

What's troubling about this discussion to me, in part, is the attitude so many have adopted (or have to have adopted for sanity) that wanting nice things in life is a bad thing. What is so wrong with wanting some new clothes from time to time, or a roast for Shabbos or Yom Tov? Why is lack of means being worn around with such pride? I don't see anything wrong with having desires for some material things. If those desires become your main focus in life, that is when problems begin.

The fact is, many are struggling financially wherever they are. Everyone has to decide their own priorities for themselves. I see no point in criticizing/judging those who live in the US because the lifestyles are different. They are where they are and have to deal with their situations.

Just describing the realities of my life involves demeaning others...hmmm..then I must be very petty! LOL

Do you think I would hate to eat out? Do you think I would be sickened by a roast on Shabbat? Do you think I like getting clothes from gemachim? Did I say a single disparaging thing about others who can afford things?

The truth is, though, I am not so interested in these things as before. I was in the mall tonight and saw a beautiful outfit and was quite attracted to it. Then I saw the price tag and it was as if someone took a jar of ink and splashed it all over the dress. It just didn't look so nice to me anymore because it was so far out of my reach financially. It is easier now. I used to have to decide whether to buy this dress or that...now it is no decision!

I'm sorry if talking about my circumstances offends others. I don't think I have any gaivah about it, because I don't look at friends who are more well-off with burning envy...as I said, I just care less and less about it because I don't have the emotional energy to waste on jealousy.

mimivan

Wed, Sep 24 2008, 8:50 pm

I said something about this above...I'm reposting it here...

I

Quote:

learned in Chabad shiurim that we are the gilgulim of the neshamos that left mitzraim. That generation worked very hard making pyramids for Paro, and doing pointless tasks, but still preserved their Jewish Identities. I think those of us who are working for non-Jews are in a sense working for Paro, but we are working towards our children's chinuch to save their neshamos and strengthen their Jewish Identity. I think always keeping this purpose in mind may help to elevate spiritually all the mundane work we do.

I guess thinking this way works for me, because our schools do not have alot of excess fat, so I feel better about paying what we pay. Also, it helps us to long for Moshiach, which is what the Rambam instructed us to do, and to fight against things that threaten our simcha...and to live b'simcha in spite of the nisayonot. Ad mosai, we want Moshiach already, we don't want to have to struggle anymore!

btMOMtoFFBs

Wed, Sep 24 2008, 9:00 pm

Oh right, you did say that.... embarrassed

Thanks for reposting.

So you're saying that by working hard to provide the chinuch we are even saving our children. If the chinuch came easily (read cheaply) then maybe we wouldn't value it as much and children could stray more easily.

That is a good idea. I was thinking it had something to do with valuing it.

It also keeps our minds somewhat regularly focused on the more important things in life: home, school, food, etc. with less time for wasting on unimportant stuff. I guess in today's world that's pretty important.

mimivan

Wed, Sep 24 2008, 9:06 pm

btMOMtoFFBs wrote:

Oh right, you did say that.... embarrassed

It is also an opportunity to demonstrate our mesirus nefesh for kosher chinuch, like the generation in mitzraim were moser nefesh to stay Jewish in spite of toiling in mundane work. But, that doesn't mean, of course, institutions can be extravagant in what they charge. However, I'm confident the ones I know of here are not charging parents more than they need to and are not extravagant.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Sep 25 2008, 9:07 am

zigi wrote:

not everyone has the tools to make it in israel. it sounds nice in theory. but not everyone is making it there either. not everyone in america is living a gashmus life. not every one has a car or ons an apt. you can't move to an out of town community if there aren't any jobs.

what does that even mean? sorry but I never get it when ppl say that.

Raisin

Thu, Sep 25 2008, 9:22 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

zigi wrote:

what does that even mean? sorry but I never get it when ppl say that.

well, people who do not speak good hebrew, just for a start.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Sep 25 2008, 9:24 am

Raisin wrote:

shabbatiscoming wrote:

zigi wrote:

what does that even mean? sorry but I never get it when ppl say that.

well, people who do not speak good hebrew, just for a start.

you can learn hebrew, there are MANY MANY good ulpans that olim can go to.

Ruchel

Thu, Sep 25 2008, 10:10 am

Maybe it's changed today, but when my father made alia he wasn't able to attend ulpan either because it was paying, or because it was during the day when he needed to work, or something like this, which led in big part to his going back to France, according to what he says.

Apart from that, you need a good parnasa in Israel to survive with a family, and not everyone is able/ready to work two jobs, or work like crazy, especially with only one day of week end. Even more if you keep shabbes, because you either work or can't go places or do much stuff.

I say when israel has a normal week end, either with friday or Sunday, it will lead to more alia AND much more shabbat observance (someone on the edge will never sacrifice his whole free time for shabes).

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Sep 25 2008, 10:22 am

Ruchel wrote:

ulpan: you can get an "allowance" to go to ulpan or now there is a sal klita for the first few months you make aliyah and always come with a bit of savings too. that helps BIG.

about a good parnassa, not everyone I know has more ythan one job and BH they are not just surviving but living just fine.

Ruchel

Thu, Sep 25 2008, 10:28 am

I totally agree that today it's easier.

I know not everyone has more than one job. But for example around me I can't think of ONE person who has to! even those with only one working spouse.

It also seems hard for retired people, no? Not that here it's necessarily easy, especially for the generation that often worked undeclared, but I mean really hard?

I know in Israel you're helped by a kind of social security for meds, birth, etc? I also think there is government money for each child you have, unless I'm mistaken?

tovarena

Thu, Sep 25 2008, 10:32 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Raisin wrote:

shabbatiscoming wrote:

zigi wrote:

what does that even mean? sorry but I never get it when ppl say that.

well, people who do not speak good hebrew, just for a start.

you can learn hebrew, there are MANY MANY good ulpans that olim can go to.

While this is not the average situation, I have a relative who is dyslexic. He has been singing the Friday night kiddush for probably 30 years now, every single Friday night, knows it by rote, and still struggles mightily with it. I'm pretty sure that you could put him with the best ulpan in the world and he would struggle to learn just the very basics, much less enough to be able to work in an all or even mostly Hebrew environment.

In terms of other tools needed, as someone who has yet to make aliyah, from where I stand, I think the most important tool to making aliyah successfully has to be flexibility. And you can't just say, so be more flexible. Some people just don't have that ability. I pray that I have enough flexibility to make aliyah successfully.

Tamiri

Thu, Sep 25 2008, 10:48 am

The OP asked what we think is behind the Nisayon of struggling to pay tuition. I responded that coupled with everything else that was going on, it mean (to us) GET OUT NOW, while the going is good.
I have this theory that Hashem sends us all sorts of messages and relies upon us to either recognize them and act upon them, or - ignore them and suffer the consequences.
Those people who saw the rising house market (and I am not saying that everyone is in that position, just giving facts) and got rid of their houses up to about 3 years ago, saw tremendous profit. The opportunity to make so much money on a house in so short a time (one friend made over 150K in just about 4 years) will probably not repeat itself any time soon. Those people sold their houses, bought in Israel (or not) and have their children in good schools. They took a leap of faith and are most likely being rewarded.
I agree that everyone else has to stop for a moment and think about the meaning of life, now that it's harder than ever to be Observant in the U.S. Food is expensive, gas is expensive, houseing harder to get into due to rigid mortgage rules: where is all this going and where is it taking those left in the U.S. Will people insist on staying in the "gildeneh medinah" once life there gets truly hard?
This remains to be seen.
But I think the OP brought up a good point, and it's one our family pondered for a while.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Sep 25 2008, 11:18 am

Ruchel wrote:

hard to retire? I would not know, I am almost 29 years old, nowhere near that age, but I would assume that if you had a job your whole life and have some sort of pension or social security, it should not be terrible.
you are correct about the medical aid, birth, etc.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Sep 25 2008, 11:24 am

tovarena wrote:

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Raisin wrote:

shabbatiscoming wrote:

zigi wrote:

what does that even mean? sorry but I never get it when ppl say that.

well, people who do not speak good hebrew, just for a start.

you can learn hebrew, there are MANY MANY good ulpans that olim can go to.

ok, about the ulpan, first of all, I know MANY MANY MANY MANY people who come here and NEVER EVER learn the language and they do just fine with jobs in their native tongue or they get around it, so again, to me, the ulpan thing is a VERY POOR "excuse" for not trying to come live here.

to be more flexible???????? dont you t hink that everybody has some degree of flexibility in them?

Ruchel

Thu, Sep 25 2008, 12:00 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

then maybe it's only for those of the older generation, but here we do hear of how difficult it is to make ends meet as a retired in Israel...