Nittel Nacht | Imamother

batya_d

Sun, Dec 24 2006, 5:05 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

why should there be any connection to chrismas with our divrei torah or learning? it makes no sense to me. who cares if there is negative energy? it is the non jewish energy, so what does that have to do with US learning torah?

I was also confused about this for a long time. I thought, "by observing Nittel aren't we acknowledging their holiday, aren't we doing the exact opposite of the intended effect? Shouldn't the best reaction to their holiday to just go about our daily business and learn as much as one pleases?

Then this shabbos I heard two alternate explanations-- one practical, one spiritual. The spiritual has already been stated earlier inthe thread-- that the negative klipot that abound that night feed off our kedusha gained from learning.

There is also a pracitcal aspect to it, as DH taught me, that hundreds of years ago when pogroms were rampant, violence against Jews was particularly rabid on Nittel, so it was dangerous for the men to go out to the Beis Medresh (back then, I assume, mostmen didn't have seforim at home, too epensive in early days of printing.)

Ruchel

Sun, Dec 24 2006, 12:54 pm

613 wrote:

I think dec. 25th is worse than sept. 11th, but just the fact that when ppl. ask him his b-day they'll be sure to give some annoying response.

sure, 11 sept is very sad but not non jewish!

what do you think of the 1st January ladies? cute or non jewish? I think it's much better than 25 dec, because the non jews don't associate it with their religion.

Ruchel

Sun, Dec 24 2006, 12:56 pm

GR wrote:

this is what I learned this week: most people do not know, very educated Christians do, that the 25th of December is not his birthday. They just chose that date because they didnt know when his birthday was. I forgot why they chose that date- something about a religious (but not Christianity religious) thing happening around that time, so they decided it was a good time for them too. they have no idea when he was born. in fact, there is a story in the Gemara about a man Yeshu, who kind of fits the description of their Yoshke, but it happened hundreds of years (I think 200-400) before they say their Yoshke lived.
according to some the 5 "disciples" got together and made up the entire story.

Often they placed their holidays next to holidays from other religions (jewish, pagan...) because they wanted to replace them and make them disappear. 25 dec is close to a pagan holiday, maybe a solstice?

gryp

Sun, Dec 24 2006, 1:04 pm

proudmom wrote:

look at the hayom yom from today

=======================
"T O D A Y ' S D A Y"
=======================

The reason for not studying Torah on Nittel-night, (1) I heard from my father, is to avoid adding vitality.

My father once said: Those diligent students who begrudge those eight hours and cannot tear themselves away from study - I am not fond of them. This (abstaining from study) applies only until midnight.

Footnote: (1) The non-Jewish festival commonly celebrated on
December 25th.

proudmom brought the source.

gryp

Sun, Dec 24 2006, 1:25 pm

Quote:

In the winter of 1942, the sixth Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rabbi Yosef Y. Schneersohn, gave his son-in-law, the future Rebbe, the task of compiling an anthology of Chasidic aphorisms and customs arranged according to the days of the year.

The calendar was entitled Hayom Yom. In describing this work Rabbi Yosef Yirzchak wrote: …"A book that is small in format…but bursting with pearls and diamonds of choicest quailty." "A splendid palace of Chasidism." True to these words, Hayom Yom has become a beloved classic work and a source of daily spiritual sustenance.

http://www.chabad.org/library/.....=5742

jewgal84

Sun, Dec 24 2006, 9:37 pm

shalhevet wrote:

amother wrote:

My due-date is tomorrow, will anyone talk to me if I have a dec 25th child Wink

It says that one should daven that their baby will not be born on Shabbos. Nothing about any other time.

Interesting, I never heared of davening for a baby not to be born on Shabbos..

Can you provide a source and explanation for it?

shalhevet

Mon, Dec 25 2006, 3:11 am

Motek wrote:

Yes, a macha'a (protest) should be made when Jews and Jewish practices are denigrated!

So where are your sources? The only source brought here has been that the Lub Rebbe didn't think it was a good idea to learn that night - not that it was assur. Where are sources from all the others you have mentioned?

My source is
ושננתם לבניך ודברת בם.../ והגית בו יומם ולילה
the Torah commandment to learn Torah constantly. The only time I have attacked is when people have brought down minhagim which are contrary to halacha. Yes, because it hurts me.

BTW, talking of the Chatam Sofer there is a famous story with him. A wealthy non-Jew (maybe even someone like a prince, I forget the details) sent him a picture of a pig. In return the CS sent him a portrait of himself (the CS). When the non-Jew queried what he had done the CS replied: You were kind enough to send me a picture of yourself so I have done the same.

shalhevet

Mon, Dec 25 2006, 3:19 am

jewgal84 wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

amother wrote:

My due-date is tomorrow, will anyone talk to me if I have a dec 25th child Wink

It says that one should daven that their baby will not be born on Shabbos. Nothing about any other time.

Interesting, I never heared of davening for a baby not to be born on Shabbos..

Can you provide a source and explanation for it?

Sefer Chassidim, Siman 793

Because the chilul Shabbos for childbirth is not quite in the same category as regular pikuach nefesh, because it is a natural situation and B"H in the vast majority of situations it is not pikuach nefesh in the end, so Chazal were more wary of breaking Shabbos (eg trying to prepare as much beforehand, doing things with a shinui if possible).
Another explanation is that so that the bris will not be on Shabbos.

(my source for all this is Sefer Toras HaYoledes)

gryp

Mon, Dec 25 2006, 9:57 am

Quote:

There is much more behind the Hayom Yom that was quoted. I don't have time to find everything I've learned about it, but the simple explanation is that when you learn Torah on Nittel-Nacht you are adding vitality to the Kelipos, and when you don't learn Torah for those hours, in a way you are adding in Kedusha.
If I find what I'm talking about, I'll post it.
It doesn't have to do with if you use the secular calendar or not. Most people I know don't celebrate their English bdays either.

TzenaRena

Mon, Dec 25 2006, 10:41 am

Quote:

Anyway, seems like you need to ask your rav which shitta to go by as to which date is nittel . There are at least 3 different deias amongst the Xians. Maybe you should be machmir and keep all three.

Since it goes according to the date of the "Akum", one abstains from learning on the night the local population designates.

The Chasam Sofer brings this explanation of why we don't learn that night till chatzos:

the Chasam Sofer wrote:

It is possible that this "minhag kadmonim's"'(custom of early sages - or alternatively ancient custom) source is in the concern that maybe there will be a kitrug on this night on Am Yisrael, of whom the majority of them sleep after chatzos, whereas the non jews go to their house of worship after midnight.

And since they didn't want to decree and obligate all of Israel to get up at midnight, because then it would be likely to be interpeted as though we are following after the non jews in our actions, therefore they preferred to completely hold us back from learning Torah before chatzos, in order that all the Lomdei Torah would rise at chatzos, to complete their established quota of daily studies and should be involved in Avodas Hashem;resultingly there would be no kitrug on Israel. (Igros Sofrim, siman 2 )

TzenaRena

Mon, Dec 25 2006, 11:00 am

Quote:

Another reason is brought in Shaalos U'teshuvos "Divrei Yisroel" (vol. 2, ch. 21) in the name of Rabbi Sar-Shalom of Belz Zt"l: It is brought in the name of the Baal Shem Tov z"l an explanation on the words of chazal "A person should not part (al yipater) from his friend except through a dvar halacha, for thereby he wil remember him" -

A person is not patur (exempted) from cleaving to the Creator (who is called "his friend" for a Jew) except through a dvar halacha, for through the concentration in depth in matters of study, a person remembers that which he learned, and if he was preoccupied with attachment to the Creator he wouldn't be able to concentrate fully in his learning.

According to this it comes out , that when learning halacha it is difficult to remain in dveikus with HKB"H, and therefore, on this night on which extra strengthening is called for in order to weaken the power of the kelipos, we need a great dveikus in HKB"H, and learning Torah is likely to dilute this deveikus. This is therefore, the reason for the minhag to negate the learning -

in order that it should be possible to become even stronger in dveikus to HKBH to annul the power of the sitra achra.

Last edited by TzenaRena on Mon, Dec 25 2006, 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total