What to use for eruv tavshilin - Shavous

chanchy123

Tue, May 26 2009, 3:34 am

Marion wrote:

Of course, I supposed I could just cook for Shabbat when I cook for YT, and then I don't have to make one at all.

I understand that you need to make one regardless so you'll be able to light candles erev shabbat (but I may be wrong about this) Also to heat things up for shabbat (and I know this is right).
It's better to make an eruv tavshilin even if you're 100% sure you're not going to need one just to be on the safe side, it really isn't that much hassle especially if you've already cooked for both YT and Shabbat in advance (take challah and soup or a kugel and chicken if you don't want to do the classic challah and egg).

chanchy123

Tue, May 26 2009, 3:40 am

chocolate moose wrote:

I know a lot of ppl use eggs. I imagine they do zecher lemaan with the egg and then it gets eaten.

By us it wouldn't, that's why I used to use the cholent b/c I knew that would get eaten. But if I don't make cholent, I guess I have to set aside something else.

Fish is as good as chicken..unless I forget about it, of course; or if we end up not needing it ...

It's ok if you forget it, as long as you include in in your menu for shabbat. I mean, don't you ever forget to serve something you made for a two day chag - happens all the time. If you don't feel like eating it in the end it's ok (as long as you planned on eating it).
As for eggs, we really only boil eggs for Shabbat. I'm not so sure why and how but it is DH's minhag to have hard boiled eggs for shabbat, their not always eaten (we sometimes forget about or don't feel like it) but you can't light candles if there are no hard boilled eggs prepared (I'd love to hear a source for this).
Now, to make him happy I start my shabbat preparations with boiling eggs.

Marion

Tue, May 26 2009, 3:57 am

So? Shabbat candles are the same day. I'm not lighting them so I'll have light on Shabbat, and I'm lighting them well before shkia (MA keeps Yerushalayim time, for some reason which I still don't understand). So I'm not preparing for Shabbat on YT by lighting Shabbat candles. It might be a bigger issue for my guests who are lighting "lichvod Shabbat v'yom tov" the 2nd time...I'll ask an LOR.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, May 26 2009, 4:02 am

shalhevet wrote:

Marion wrote:

Of course, I supposed I could just cook for Shabbat when I cook for YT, and then I don't have to make one at all.

Except you have to light Shabbos candles.

for the shabbat candles, we keep a yortzheit candle burning all through so that we have fire for the candles.

for the eruv tavshilin, growing up my mother ued matzah and an egg. I dont think that I have ever needed to make one before. the truth is, is that we have a gas stove top and I am not comfortable with leaving it on. as well as that. our stove does not stay on indefinitely. it has a time limit of maybe 3 hours and then it shuts off, so I am also going to be making everythingfor shabbat before yom tov starts. so I wont really need one either.

chanchy123

Tue, May 26 2009, 4:17 am

Marion wrote:

I'm throwing in Shabbatiscomming as well:

You're both a bit confused.
You MUST light shabbat candles while it is still YT becuase it is forbidden to להעביר אש or even touch the candle on Shabbat. Doesn't matter when on YT you light Shbbat candles as long as you do so before shkia. You leave the yortzeit (spl?) so you can light shabbat candles, but you can only use it if you've done ET, otherwise it would be assur for you to prepare for Shabbat by lighting before Shabbat comes it, but also assur to light AFTER shabbat comes in.
On YT that is two days, or starts on motsei shabbat, you light after tset hacochavim, not before shkia like on shabbat (that is why you can never have "early YT") many people have a minhag to light as you are sitting down to eat the seuda on YT.
It is always good to prepare ET even if you're not planning on lighting shabbat candles (for whatever reson) becuase you never know what you might need.
Also, the mara deatra of each community does ET for the entire community, so people don't get stuck, but still each person should do one on their own (Shalhevet please correct me if my memory has failed).

Marion

Tue, May 26 2009, 4:46 am

It doesn't make any sense to make ET to light Shabbat candles, because you don't make one the other way around (when 2nd day YT is motzaei Shabbat, you light from a pre-existing flame also). The yahrzeit/long-burning candle solves the issue of being ma'avir esh. ET has to do with preparing (lit. COOKING) for Shabbat on YT, when one normally does not prepare from YT to the next day. Therefore, if one is not going to prepare on YT for Shabbat, an ET is not necessary. Lighting Shabbat candles is not preparation for Shabbat, in the sense that it is not Shabbat until after you've lit candles. Once you've lit candles it's Shabbat and all the halachot of melacha (even the ones that "do not apply" on YT) are in full force; an ET wouldn't help you once Shabbat comes in.

chanchy123

Tue, May 26 2009, 4:53 am

Marion wrote:

You light from a prexisting flame regardless.
You don't make an ET when YT is Motsei Shabbat or on a two day chag because you don't need one. You are not allowed to do ANY preparations on the first day for the second, whether it is setting the table, changing clothes etc (I.e. things you can do on shbbat), and when it is a two day chag, you can't cook for the second day on the first, you have to wait for tset before you start cooking (although you can make a double amount on the day itself and serve leftovers the next day).
The ET is so you can prepare for shabbat before it comes in. Shabbat does not come in when you light, it comes in when the sun goes down. You have tosefet shabbat when you light and then you don't do melacha. You can ONLY light candles before shkia because it is forbidden to light on once shabbat has come in. That saying, it is shabbat once you light and have the kavana of bringing in shabbat.
I'm not sure which part you don't understand.
Buy don't trust me consult DH and ask your LOR don't pasken according to imamother, have a real live rav explain things to you and tell you what to do according to your/his shita.

RachelEve14

Tue, May 26 2009, 5:38 am

According to my guidelines book, you do need an ET even if you don't plan to cook, but you don't make a Bracha.

35. Who Does Not Require an eiriv tavshilin?

A person who does not intend making any preparations on Friday for Shabbos and does not need to kindle Shabbos lights. A person who needs only to kindle Shabbos lights, should make an eiruv without a bracha. This may be relevant for a person who is staying in a hotel or is invited out for all the Shabbos meals.

(From Guildlines Yom Tov, Ravvi Elozor Barclay & Rabbi Yitzchok Jaeger).

shalhevet

Tue, May 26 2009, 5:51 am

Not only all that chanchy wrote - RachelEve I also remember learning that - but don't you heat up food for Shabbat that it's assur to heat on Shabbat (eg soup or hot water)? Because that is considered cooking, even if you made your soup before YT.

Quote:

Doesn't matter when on YT you light Shbbat candles as long as you do so before shkia.

This is the only bit I'm not sure is right. I think it's better (but not essential) to light a little earlier and benefit from the candles on YT. Also, my dh told me it is preferable to heat up/ cook the food so that it is ready to eat a while before shkiya on YT, so that you would use it if need be on YT (say the 15 unexpected guests from the other thread suddenly turned up...)

chanchy123

Tue, May 26 2009, 5:56 am

shalhevet wrote:

Quote:

Doesn't matter when on YT you light Shbbat candles as long as you do so before shkia.

Thank for the info I'll need to remeber to ask DH about that, I honestly can't remember what I did last time.

RachelEve14

Tue, May 26 2009, 6:33 am

shalhevet wrote:

Quote:

Doesn't matter when on YT you light Shbbat candles as long as you do so before shkia.

I think in the example he was talking about people who were out meals or weren't using foods that needed to be prepared.

I plan on making one with a bracha, I want my Shabbos Soup! But if someone was out both meals, or using all cold food, or out Friday night and heating up food on the plata for Shabbot lunch like a regular Shabbot, then she wouldnt' make a bracha on the eiruv.

shabbatiscoming

Sat, May 30 2009, 3:50 pm

I just wanted to point out that my husband looked up about an eruv tavshilin and it did not say anything about also having to make one for lighting the candles. it only said that you must make one if you intend to cook.

lighting the candles for shabbat, you are not lighting a fire. you are just transfering an existing fire to another spot, thats all.

Tamiri

Sat, May 30 2009, 3:53 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

for the eruv tavshilin, growing up my mother ued matzah and an egg. I dont think that I have ever needed to make one before. the truth is, is that we have a gas stove top and I am not comfortable with leaving it on. as well as that. our stove does not stay on indefinitely. it has a time limit of maybe 3 hours and then it shuts off, so I am also going to be making everythingfor shabbat before yom tov starts. so I wont really need one either.

Do you have an American stove with auto shut-off? If so, there is (should be?) a way to overrided it so the oven doesn't go off. Mine have all had that.

shabbatiscoming

Sat, May 30 2009, 4:00 pm

Tamiri wrote:

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Do you have an American stove with auto shut-off? If so, there is (should be?) a way to overrided it so the oven doesn't go off. Mine have all had that.

nope, an israeli stove

shabbatiscoming

Sun, May 31 2009, 1:58 am

Aidelmom wrote:

shabbat you may be able to leave it on - It took us a while to figure out that if ou turn the knob of the timer to M it stays on indefinitely. Then we just put the oven on a timer to go on when we need it on yom tov.

ah, so thats what the M is for. I had no idea and have long since thrown out the instruction manual.