need some ideas for girls names. unique or usual

TzenaRena

Mon, Apr 03 2006, 10:11 pm

mali wrote:

SaraYehudis wrote:

Torah Sheb'ksav was given in Lashon haKodesh
Torah She'b'al Peh was given in Aramaic
Toras HaChassidus was given in ...Yiddish

tanya, which is the torah shebichsav of chassidus, is written in loshon kodesh.
and by the way, amother - tanya is an interesting girls' name.

Yes it is written in Lashon Hakodesh, as are most of the maamorim. BUT it was originally said e.g. spoken in Yiddish,

in hakdomas hamelaket the Alter Rebbe says that these are eitzos he already gave at yechidus to many chassidim, but since he no longer was able to answer everyone individually because of time constraints, therefore

"I have written all the replies to all of the questions for a preservation for a sign to be for each one a remembrance 'between his eyes' and he should not press anymore to go into speak with me in yechidus, because with them he will find satiation for his soul and appropriate advice for everything which presents difficulty for him in avodas hashem..."

Also the Maamorim were spoken first in Yiddish, and then put in writing in Lashon Hakodesh.

Tanya as a girl's name? I'm pretty sure that's russian, not of Jewish origin.

red sea

Mon, Apr 03 2006, 10:39 pm

SaraYehudis wrote:

shoshb wrote:

Quote:

And what do you have against Yiddish names?

Nothing. If I were naming after somebody.
If I could choose from any name in the whole world, there are enough names in Lashon Hakodesh, that I wouldn't need German/Polish/Russian influences.

Torah Sheb'ksav was given in Lashon haKodesh
Torah She'b'al Peh was given in Aramaic
Toras HaChassidus was given in ...Yiddish

The deepest, most Divine part of the Torah was given in Yiddish! The Baal Shem Tov and the Maggid of Mezritsch said all of their Torah in Yiddish. All the Rebbeim of Chabad said all of their Torah in Yiddish. Likewise the other Talmidim of the Baal Shem tov and Magggid and all their successors. Yiddish is a holy tongue, elevated by Jews throughout centuries of limud torah and mesirus nefesh.

Those Jews who speak this tongue as their first language are keeping up the tradition of "lo shinu es shemom, l'shoinom , levusham" they did not change their language ( or names, or attire" for which the Jews merited to leave Mitzrayim, and for which again in our days we will merit the final Geulah.

There is nothing German, Polish or Russian about that at all.

But, often, someone's disdain for the Yiddish language or Yiddish names. reveals that there is a Zionist, or secular influence there, which is more than equivalent to a german , polish or russian influence.

Okay I really was not going to get involved with the hebrew vs yiddish names conversation but..... after reading this I feel the need

Shoshb is correct that yiddish IS a language that began in the time of the baal shem tov, not before, its only been around a few hundred years.

It IS a language derived of a combonation of loshon kodesh and german.

Quote:

The deepest, most Divine part of the Torah was given in Yiddish!

I find that contrary to jewish thought. As far as I know in ALL jewish circles from all over the world, the closer to "moshe kibel torah misinai" the torah and tzaddikim are the more holy the generation and there is nothing more deep or divine than the actual torah which we received at har sinai.

SaraYehudis, you are correct that

Quote:

Yiddish is a holy tongue, elevated by Jews throughout centuries of limud torah

, otherwise all our Rabbis would not stand idly by and name so many children yiddish names, that is proof enough that its okay.

As far as being taken out of mitrayim due to not changing our names, language, and dress, I dare say our language and names were not yiddish at all being that it didn't appear on this earth for a few thousand years still. Any jewish history buffs on here? What language was spoken by the jews in mitrayim?

Since shoshb did not badmouth yiddish names but just stated her preference for loshon kodesh names, a returning to our core roots idealism, I do feel that these comments

Quote:

someone's disdain for the Yiddish language or Yiddish names. reveals that there is a Zionist, or

are a bit over the top.

Last edited by red sea on Mon, Apr 03 2006, 11:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

Crayon210

Mon, Apr 03 2006, 11:00 pm

red sea wrote:

You are mixing up lots of concepts here.

In a nutshell, Chassidus is considered the gem in the crown of the Torah, the deepest and most divine.

red sea wrote:

As far as being taken out of mitrayim due to not changing our names, language, and dress, I dare say our language and names were not yiddish at all being that it didn't appear on this earth for a few thousand years still. Any jewish history buffs on here? What language was spoken by the jews in mitrayim?

1. No one said that in Egypt we spoke Yiddish. We spoke the Jewish language

2. which was Loshon Kodesh. No one speaks LK anymore; Modern Hebrew is not Loshon Kodesh. That only leaves Yiddish, which is holy and untainted by Zionism.

red sea wrote:

I do feel that these comments

Quote:

someone's disdain for the Yiddish language or Yiddish names. reveals that there is a Zionist, or

are a bit over the top.

What about this quote, to which SaraYehudis was actually referring?

shoshb wrote:

Nothing. If I were naming after somebody.
If I could choose from any name in the whole world, there are enough names in Lashon Hakodesh, that I wouldn't need German/Polish/Russian influences.

Sounds like a bit more than a preference...sounds like hostility toward Yiddish, which today comes from "German/Polish/Russian" influences.

TzenaRena

Mon, Apr 03 2006, 11:08 pm

Quote:

find that contrary to jewish thought. As far as I know in ALL jewish circles from all over the world, the closer to "moshe kibel torah misinai" the torah and tzaddikim are the more holy the generation and there is nothing more deep or divine than the actual torah which we received at har sinai.

Toras HaChassidus is the revelation of the INNER DIMENSION of this very same 'actual Torah' both the Torah Sh'bksav and the Torah She'b'al Peh.. "hatorah medaberes b'elyonim, umeramezes b'tachtonim". Torah speaks in the divine, and alludes to the physical world. The words of the Torah in experiences that we relate to are actually codes for Divine secrets. Chassidus is the revelation of the "m'daberes b'elyonim".

Quote:

The Medrash says that the final Geulah will take place in this merit as well. We are talking about the It is the language the Jews speak uniquely in leading their Jewish lives. By your argument, we should all be walking around in flowing robes, and similar headdresses, and sandals, because that is what Jews wore thousands of years ago, if we want to to fulfill "they did not change thier levush.". But obviously there is a unique style of Jewish dress in OUR, or ANY time, and that is the meaning of the medrash.

As far as names, it's the same, whether Rav Pappa, Huna etc. names we aren't familiar with today, but were likely common at that time. They were minhag Yisrael, and that's what's Jewish about them!!

Quote:

Since mali did not badmouth yiddish names but just stated her preference for loshon kodesh names, a returning to our core roots idealism, I do feel that these comments Quote:
someone's disdain for the Yiddish language or Yiddish names. reveals that there is a Zionist, or
are a bit over the top

not mali, but someone else said she would stay away from Yiddish names, becausse she doesn't like German Russian, Polish influence. My response was to that.

red sea

Mon, Apr 03 2006, 11:28 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

In a nutshell, Chassidus is considered the gem in the crown of the Torah, the deepest and most divine.

Crayon, I am asking this question out of curiosity as I am not chassidic,

if it is the gem in the crown of the torah,

then isn't the torah the ikur and most divine,

and the gem is its adornment which adds great beauty?

Quote:

So I take it then that you do agree that at some point our language did change

and if some people prefer to name from the original loshon kodesh

names from the actual torah over names of say aramaic or yiddish origin,

they are not being disdainful towards those who do name their children otherwise.

Quote:

shoshb wrote:

Nothing. If I were naming after somebody.
If I could choose from any name in the whole world, there are enough names in Lashon Hakodesh, that I wouldn't need German/Polish/Russian influences.

Sounds like a bit more than a preference...sounds like hostility toward Yiddish, which today comes from "German/Polish/Russian" influences.

See that is the problem with the internet,

to me it just sounds like she is explaining herself plainly, but to you it sounds like more.

We cannot hear her tone or see her expression, so it leaves much to our imaginations to decide the intent.

red sea

Mon, Apr 03 2006, 11:36 pm

Quote:

Since (mali-oops wrong person, she just quoted it) shoshb did not badmouth yiddish names but just stated her preference for loshon kodesh names, a returning to our core roots idealism, I do feel that these comments Quote:
someone's disdain for the Yiddish language or Yiddish names. reveals that there is a Zionist, or
are a bit over the top

not mali, but someone else said she would stay away from Yiddish names, becausse she doesn't like German Russian, Polish influence. My response was to that.

thanx 4 the correction I fixed the name of the op, the quoting got me confused.

TzenaRena

Tue, Apr 04 2006, 12:26 am

Quote:

Why? B/c he said in society at large (we are talking about frum Israeli society at large) they often get made fun of, and it is problematic to give a child a name they will come to hate. He did say that in American frum circles this is not as much of a problem.

I do know that this is the case, and it's a shame. The question is why it is like that, and that's because of the attitude that Yiddish is "galuti", a language of galus, and that was all left behind, with the new modern Zionist state..... An attitude that unfortunately signifies the deepest kind of galus, a Jewish inferiority complex.!

Yosefa

Wed, Apr 26 2006, 1:35 pm

mali wrote:

it's so much fun really choosing a name for your kid, and not naming him/her after someone. I don't think I'll ever get a chance to do that.

same here. I have a long list of relatives I would like to name after.

I like Tziporah (along with a lot of the others that have been mentioned.)

It's good to think about a couple things:
Do you like nick names? If you do, give something that have a cute nickname, if not give something with none, so it won't come up.
It's also good to think about how people mispronunciate the name,if you care. Like my friend was going to ba a Naomi, but her mom didn't like how people say, "nay-omi." Now she's Aviva, which is suposed to be the next great popular name.

BTW, there's an interesting new book, not Jewish, called Freakonomics. There's a chapter about if names influence peoples lives. It's interesting to see all the lists of names, because the most successful ones are mostly Jewish names: Dov, Akiva, Itay, Aviva, Devorah...

TzenaRena

Wed, Apr 26 2006, 2:34 pm

Quote:

Ladino: Reina, Diamante, Sarina, Gioia, Brilante, Allegra, Sultana, Perla, Oro, Duena, Buena, Angela, Benvenuta/Bienvenida, Estella, Dolza, Fermoza, Luna, Gracia, Preciosa, Dora, Mazaltov, Clara, Emma, Bella, Linda, Metuka, Bolissa, Gilda...

wow Ruchel. I had no idea that some of these names were actually Jewish names. I had a classmate Allegra, another one Perla, have a friend who has a child Reina - now that I think of it, her in laws are Sephardic - (always thought it was a Yiddish name), a neighbor Gilda (thought it was Yiddish), and a student Angela. Thanks for the education Smile

and shoshb, I apologize for being defensive about your remark, Sad

(although I still maintain that the reason people have hang-ups about Yiddish names is bec. of the reasons I said).

Ruchel

Wed, Apr 26 2006, 3:13 pm

SaraYehudis wrote:

Quote:

You're welcome Smile

Actually Reina is also a Yiddish name meaning "pure". Gilda is a Frankish name (hence the Germanic sound) that was used by French Jews and followed them in Spain after expulsion.
Some well known Yiddish names also have Spanish roots, because of Sephardic immigration to Poland.
Esperanza -> Shprinza
Bella -> Baila/Beila
Dolza -> Doltse
Buena -> Buna
Gracia -> Krasia, Krasel
Bruna -> Breina, Breindel