Ds 26 yo came for succos walks without yarmulke

allthingsblue

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 11:33 am

amother Chicory wrote:

The reason men wear a kippah is to show that God is above them. Not wearing a kippah in a family that wears kippahs is a statement that you don't agree that God is above. If having a rule that a male family member must wear a yarmulkah to prevent disregarding this vital statement in your home is called manipulative, but hygienic rules are not manipulative, then I just have different values than you. In my home there are different values and priorities.

Forcing someone to wear the yarmulke doesn’t mean he suddenly believes in Hashem!

Also, it’s not true that someone who doesn’t wear a yarmulke doesn’t believe in Hashem. It could be he just finds it hard, just like many of us find it hard to wear tights in the summer or not to speak lashon hora or not to get angry (the last two are actual aveiros. A yarmulke and tights are minhag)

amother

Obsidian

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 11:36 am

allthingsblue wrote:

And forcing an adult to wear a kippah for the purpose of maintaining a certain atmosphere in the home, is manipulating a situation. Lets call it what it is.

tichellady

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 11:38 am

amother Chicory wrote:

Yes. The initial post asked what people would do in the situation wear a 26 year old son comes into the Sukkah without a yarmulkah.

So to answer the question directly, I would say, "dear child I love you with all my heart and soul but I request that you respect the rules in our house regarding wearing a yarmulkah. What you do in your life is between you and Hashem, but please wear a yarmulkah as long as you are staying with us."

Reread it

amother

Lightgreen

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 11:41 am

Ema of 5 wrote:

Many of my house rules are based in torah. It is not manipulative to enforce them as house rules just because they are based in torah. I don’t allow treif in my house because the torah doesn’t allow it. That is the reason. Is it manipulative to enforce it just because it’s based in torah?

No, and I didn't say that.

amother

Chicory

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 11:47 am

allthingsblue wrote:

Where did I say forcing the child to wear a yarmulkah is making them believe in Hashem? I didn't say it nor did I imply it. I said there are basic rules in a house that parents are entitled to enforce, whether they are for hygiene or otherwise. Parents are entitled to have a rule that yarmulkes are to be worn when the child is living with them.

I said that a yarmulkah is symbolic that Hashem is above and to not wear that is to send a statement. Now, it doesn't mean the child doesn't believe in Hashem, but it could mean that as well. Not wearing a yarmulkah wearing changes the atmosphere in the house regarding Yidishkeit.

Minhagim are almost like halachos, they are not meant to be taken lightly and disregarded. Minhugim are the fences around the halachos, they are meant to protect halacha. Therefore, we see women who don't wear tights don't cover their ankles and often their knees are uncovered as well, both of which are ervas and have to be covered l'halacha.

amother

DarkGreen

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 12:14 pm

amother Chicory wrote:

What is the end goal?

Forcing someone to follow a practice they don't believe in accomplishes nothing and probably does exactly the opposite since presumably someone who isn't wearing a kippah thinks it is meaningless.

Forcing someone to do it for appearance sake makes it doubly meaningless.

You can ask someone to not do something that impacts your house - I.e. not to treif up your dishes or kitchen for example but enforcing clothing rules on a 26 year old who is rejecting them is doing nothing except alienating the person

amother

Obsidian

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 12:17 pm

amother DarkGreen wrote:

The house is impacted. There are better ways to communicate with an adult child then giving over a set of house rules.

amother

Oak

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 12:28 pm

amother Chicory wrote:

Wearing a kippah rule is manipulative but drinking straight from a container is not? Perhaps not letting a kid bring in treife food in the house is manipulative as well? Perhaps not wearing a mini skirt in the house is manipulative as well? But no shoes indoors is not manipulative...

In other words, rules respecting Jewish values is manipulative but other rules are not...that is the message you are imparting to your family.

The difference is super clear!! If it's something that has to do with everyone else- drinking from the container, bringing food into the room bec there will be bugs, are normal to enforce!
If the rule has something to do with one person's individual body, it is not a rule a parent can force on an adult child- that includes a yarmulka or a short skirt! Yes it might be emotionality painful for the family, but that is not on the same level as bugs in the house bec of crumbs in the bedroom, or stomach pains due to a lack of hygiene. Think about it in a logical way!

amother

Arcticblue

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 12:33 pm

amother Chicory wrote:

I want to give you a bracha that you are never faced with this nissayon. You’ll be in for a very rude awakening.

amother

Forestgreen

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 5:31 am

amother Arcticblue wrote:

I want to give you a bracha that you are never faced with this nissayon. You’ll be in for a very rude awakening.

That's exactly what happened to me.
I agree with all the posters telling the OP to lay down the law. But then. . .
When we suspected but hadn't yet been told the DC was not frum anymore we tried to make these rules.
When he threatened to leave home for good he won.
We are heartbroken from his choice. But kicking him out will solve nothing.
So we all sit around and pretend- and when I forgot myself for a moment on RH after I found him using his phone and started crying and told him that this lifestyle will not make him find the happiness he is desperately seeking he told my husband on me for upsetting him and I had to apologize.