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Forum
-> Household Management
-> Finances
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amother
Yolk
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 Fri, Mar 29 2024, 9:39 am
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Can I ask if you ever asked a shaila on giving a chomesh if you are struggling, even if there is no debt. I am not saying asking for a heter not to give, I am saying if it is acceptable and commendable to do it.
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amother
Ghostwhite
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Fri, Mar 29 2024, 9:41 am
I think because it is hard.
People are living paycheck to paycheck so even a few hundred makes a difference. Intellectually we know that giving it is a guarantee for more money, but it doesn't seem that way according to the nature of the world.
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amother
Whitewash
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Fri, Mar 29 2024, 10:23 am
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Give up, OP. I think people are purposefully misunderstanding you.
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amother
Marigold
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Fri, Mar 29 2024, 10:56 am
| amother Ghostwhite wrote: | I think because it is hard.
People are living paycheck to paycheck so even a few hundred makes a difference. Intellectually we know that giving it is a guarantee for more money, but it doesn't seem that way according to the nature of the world. |
Yes, I need to be saving money for my kids weddings and retirement, not to mention the down payment I need to put together before that. I love giving tzedakah but in my current life circumstances, it means being financially irresponsible and I don’t know how to deal with that.
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amother
Ghostwhite
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Fri, Mar 29 2024, 10:57 am
| amother Marigold wrote: | | Yes, I need to be saving money for my kids weddings and retirement, not to mention the down payment I need to put together before that. I love giving tzedakah but in my current life circumstances, it means being financially irresponsible and I don’t know how to deal with that. |
I relate. I wish I could so totally buy into the fact that if I give maser I am guaranteed parnassah. I have to work on my bitachon for sure.
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amother
Yolk
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Fri, Mar 29 2024, 11:31 am
| amother Whitewash wrote: | | Give up, OP. I think people are purposefully misunderstanding you. |
Can you please explain what you mean by this?
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amother
Mintgreen
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Fri, Mar 29 2024, 11:34 am
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When we were struggling financially and asked Rav about maaser for tuition he said now is not the time to be nitpicky with maaser. Give the data and u will see Bracha. BH it has worked
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amother
Rose
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Fri, Mar 29 2024, 11:39 am
| amother OP wrote: | Whenever anyone posts about their financial difficulties, if they are giving maaser or chomesh (10% or 20% to tzedakah) it always gets jumped on.
Why?
People post about their $4,000 mortgages and $600 car leases and $3,000 food budgets and nobody blinks, but if chas veshalom we are giving a percentage of our income to keep other Jews afloat, better get a heter to get out of that?
Women post about spending for Shabbos because Hashem pays you back, but tzedakah (which has an explicit guarantee for the same) is looked down upon?
Why is it not seen as a mitzvah, if not an obligation, and something that brings bracha from Hashem?
Why can people not fathom that for some, it's as non-negotiable as therapy?
Why are people focused on honesty with taxes, but chas veshalom to give our "tax" to Hashem?
Isn't it obvious that if everyone would give maaser or chomesh, we'd have fewer desperate families? That if each of us would stretch to give to those less fortunate than us, we'd all benefit?
I understand some Rabbonim say it's entirely optional, or that you can get out of it with tuition, or that if you're poor you're exempt. But why is getting out of it viewed as praiseworthy?
Please educate me. |
Op, looking back at what you started, I think if you are being honest your claims aren't true. In fact they are ridiculous. Completely and entirely ridiculous. Think about it.
You substantiate your argument by saying that NOBODY BLINKS when people complain they have no money yet have big expenses in other areas. This is false and you should know.
If someone would write a post complaining about money but talk about their fancy house, fancy car leases, expensive vacations, exotic clothing or anything similar, most posters would call them out on this. In fact the thread would be dominated by posters telling the op to change her lifestyle. So plz don't claim that nobody cares when people splurge and complain they have no money.
Secondly, certain lifestyle choices are hard to unwind. A family that was doing well financially and took out a big 30 year mortgage might c'vs have problems along the way. Suggesting a family like this should simply sell and downgrade isn't easy. As opposed to a person struggling who is able to pick up the phone and call a rav for guidance and have a new approach 10 minutes later.
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amother
Whitewash
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Fri, Mar 29 2024, 11:41 am
| amother Yolk wrote: | | Can you please explain what you mean by this? |
Seems to happen a lot that somebody tries to make a specific point but people respond as if they said something completely different. OP has no issues with what people are or aren't doing with their maaser. Her point is that people dont PRIORITIZE maaser in the ADVICE they give on this site.
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amother
Clover
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Fri, Mar 29 2024, 11:46 am
| amother Whitewash wrote: | | Seems to happen a lot that somebody tries to make a specific point but people respond as if they said something completely different. OP has no issues with what people are or aren't doing with their maaser. Her point is that people dont PRIORITIZE maaser in the ADVICE they give on this site. |
We understand her point. What we are saying is that her point is unsubstantiated and based on false assumptions.
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amother
Rose
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Fri, Mar 29 2024, 11:52 am
| amother OP wrote: | | I'm very curious, what were you told? Are you allowed to keep the heat on 70 when you are in debt? Can you buy cereal and milk or just oatmeal? Must you according to halacha eat rice and beans? |
Where are you getting this from? Why would being in debt prevent someone from buying good food and keeping the heat on? Banks and lenders are in the debt business. The credit card doesn't care if you're spending while in debt. In fact they like it so that they can charge more interest.
But tell us what you've heard. Have you heard a rav say otherwise that a person should only eat rice if they are in debt? Can they turn on the AC or only use fans? Do you know of a rav who has said to give up on these basics if people are in debt?
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amother
Rose
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Fri, Mar 29 2024, 11:57 am
| amother OP wrote: | Please reread the thread.
I did NOT criticize anyone who doesn't give maaser.
I understand, there are many reasons not to. Some Rabbis say it is not obligatory at all. Your Rav said it was inappropriate under the circumstances. I'm not judging anyoone.
This thread was questioning why those who DO prioritize maaser are jumped upon. As if sacrificing for maaser is morally repugnant, while sacrificing for other things is understandable. |
You're generalizing. Plz link a thread where people who give maaser were "jumped on". Show us a poster in this thread who "jumped on" maaser givers.
I have good news for you op. You are imagining this problem. And this doesn't negate that you might find a tiny minority that do give maaser givers a hard time. But you titled this thread "why does everyone hate maaser so much".
Really op? Everyone hates maaser givers so much? Take a drink and calm down plz.
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notshanarishona
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Fri, Mar 29 2024, 12:01 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Yeah, it's skipping the yogurts, no chicken during the week, Walmart shoes, no vacation, clinic therapy instead of private, making instead of buying challah, checking your own lettuce, buying last year clearance Kidichic or Tottini instead of current season, and a number of other sacrifices.
But unless your Rav paskens that only rice and beans are permissible when you are in debt (what counts as debt? mortgage? car loan? tuition that you're paying off slowly? credit cards?), why is it unconscionable to prioritize maaser or chomesh instead of having all of those things that are already considered standard? |
Because the poor of your own family comes first. Nothing is wrong with sacrifice but it needs to be something that doesn’t negatively affect your children . It wouldn’t be commendable to make your kids go hungry/ malnourished/ be cold / wear too big clothes, all the time. Limiting expensive food, buying non name brands, etc is good if you have to.
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amother
Offwhite
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Fri, Mar 29 2024, 2:10 pm
| amother Ghostwhite wrote: | I think because it is hard.
People are living paycheck to paycheck so even a few hundred makes a difference. Intellectually we know that giving it is a guarantee for more money, but it doesn't seem that way according to the nature of the world. |
There's different opinions about what is guaranteed. Not necessarily wealth or more money. Some opinions are just that your basic needs will be met. And who is to say what that includes?
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amother
Ghostwhite
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Fri, Mar 29 2024, 2:11 pm
| amother Offwhite wrote: | | There's different opinions about what is guaranteed. Not necessarily wealth or more money. Some opinions are just that your basic needs will be met. And who is to say what that includes? |
I think that's a pretty good guarantee. I'd like all of my basic needs met 
What sources do you have?
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amother
OP
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Fri, Mar 29 2024, 4:42 pm
| notshanarishona wrote: | | Because the poor of your own family comes first. Nothing is wrong with sacrifice but it needs to be something that doesn’t negatively affect your children . It wouldn’t be commendable to make your kids go hungry/ malnourished/ be cold / wear too big clothes, all the time. Limiting expensive food, buying non name brands, etc is good if you have to. |
Where in anything I said did you get the idea that I advocate for starving children and not meeting their basic needs because of my principles? Homemade challah is no less nourishing (and arguably more so) than storebought. Pareve food is not inherently less nutritionally sound than chicken. Last year's Tottini can fit just as well as this year's, assuming you buy the right size.
I do prioritize maaser over many conveniences and small luxuries, but my children are not cold, hungry, and dressed in rags.
It's good to limit those things if you "have to," and for me, the same way I sacrifice for tuition, I also sacrifice for maaser. By my children sacrificing their yogurts, another family is able to afford oatmeal. That's something we find worthwhile.
I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand.
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amother
Yolk
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Fri, Mar 29 2024, 4:45 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Where in anything I said did you get the idea that I advocate for starving children and not meeting their basic needs because of my principles? Homemade challah is no less nourishing (and arguably more so) than storebought. Pareve food is not inherently less nutritionally sound than chicken. Last year's Tottini can fit just as well as this year's, assuming you buy the right size.
I do prioritize maaser over many conveniences and small luxuries, but my children are not cold, hungry, and dressed in rags.
It's good to limit those things if you "have to," and for me, the same way I sacrifice for tuition, I also sacrifice for maaser. By my children sacrificing their yogurts, another family is able to afford oatmeal. That's something we find worthwhile.
I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand. |
I am still curious if you ever asked a rav about giving a chomesh in your circumstances.
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amother
OP
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Fri, Mar 29 2024, 4:48 pm
| amother Yolk wrote: | | I am still curious if you ever asked a rav about giving a chomesh in your circumstances. |
Yes. We were told that although we may not be obligated, since we have seen bracha in it, it is appropriate to continue.
(The Rav shared a story about cutting down a fruit tree, where someone was given a heter to do so but did not see good results and was told in the future not to do it even though it is allowed by halacha.)
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amother
Yolk
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Fri, Mar 29 2024, 4:49 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Yes. We were told that although we may not be obligated, since we have seen bracha in it, it is appropriate to continue.
(The Rav shared a story about cutting down a fruit tree, where someone was given a heter to do so but did not see good results and was told in the future not to do it even though it is allowed by halacha.) |
What does an apple tree have to do with giving a chomesh?
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amother
Buttercup
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Fri, Mar 29 2024, 4:51 pm
| amother Mintgreen wrote: | | When we were struggling financially and asked Rav about maaser for tuition he said now is not the time to be nitpicky with maaser. Give the data and u will see Bracha. BH it has worked |
What’s give the data?
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