Can't believe it... cio?

chani8

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 6:27 am

Motherlee wrote:

chini8: How long would it take for the child to fall asleep every night? Also, how many days does it take for this method to work?

Depends on how tired the child is. My kids usually take about 10 minutes, but 20 isn't unusual. A baby may take much longer at first.

Experts say it takes about 21 days for a person to set a good habit. So plan on an hour of bedtime sitting for the next month. I hope it goes easier than that!

I just want to clarify the terms. I sit in the room, lights off.Keep things positive and reassuring. A smile and a good night, even if they're screaming. Then don't make much eye contact and let them CIO - sometimes its more like SIO (scream it out), at first.

Good luck! Use a watch so that you see it's not as long as it feels. lol

ETA - I meant, CIO doesn't last for more than a few minutes, but they don't always fall asleep right away, and I sit there until they're asleep or really close to it.

Motherlee

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 7:00 am

chani8 wrote:

What I did with my ds was similar to the Ferber method and it worked beautifully. I was just wondering how long it takes for them to calm down if they see you in the room. It sounds like it worked out nicely for you.

chani8

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 7:32 am

Motherlee wrote:

Motherlee, I do it both ways, depending on the child. I'm a foster mom, so some babies have sensory issues and my being there makes things worse. Others have trauma issues and need me there until they're asleep.

My bio-babies slept in my room until they were between 1yr to 3yr, then I would stay with them in their rooms until they fell asleep, mostly because they misbehaved if I left them. lol

ETA - The Ferber book taught me a lot.

Motherlee

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 7:54 am

chani8 wrote:

Wow, you sure put a lot of heart into raising children! Kudos to you!

imaima

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 9:09 am

amother wrote:

I am adamantly against CIO... but lately my baby(10 months) has been having a hard time sleeping and staying asleep. As is he refuse to sleep in his crib and sleeps in his stroller laying down flat. We have a set bedtime routine, set nap times ect. He should be able should be able to sleep! Some nights there is no fuss and then he will wake up an hour later and refuse refuse to go to sleep fill 11oclock! He goes to sleep with a bottle of breastmilk but sometimes he will refuse the bottle. He He won't take a paci. He won't nurse to sleep. The past few nights we have gone on walks at 10 o'clock and then He would fall asleep at ll.I switched his nap to 1 long nap for 2 hours instead of 2 short naps during the day so that he is ready for bed. Tonight he went to sleep nicely but woke up with dirty diaper... tried to put him back to sleep and another dirty diaper... held him, nursed him and hugged and hugged him. Stayed In his room with him.... He kvetched even more. Probably because he wanted me to hold him... but when I picked him up he would only stop crying for a drop! Finally after an hour I couldn't anymore. Didn't want his bottle, didn't want his blankie, and even when when I was holding him he was kvetching. .. I went to my room and let him cry for 9 minutes and then he talked to himself a bit and went to sleep!!!! Did he just CIO? I feel so guilty. What about the trust vs. Mistrust stage ? Did I just tell him that mommy is not listening to you?? I feel horrible. I want him to have a secure attachment! I really tried:( Sad

I'm tearing up. Please advise.
On a side note how can I help him sleep in his crib?? He is 10 months old.

No you just left him alone and he went to sleep on his own!! OMG 9 Minutes is a great result! DOn't mess it up tonight and let him go to sleep on his own again! Be consistent! You are listening to him all day long. Night is for sleeping not listening.

working hard

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 10:10 am

My twins are a year old now. Twin 2 taught me that she needs me to leave her to fall asleep on her own. I put them both in their cribs with a blanket and paci. If they cry I go back in, calm them and leave, as many times as necessary. Twin 1 went to sleep. After doing this for almost 2 weeks with twin 2, I saw she was not calming down but each time I went in escalated the situation. One night I put her in her crib, sang her a song, rubbed her back for a minute, gave her a paci, and then I left the room. She cried to about 3 minutes and went to sleep. That is what she needed. Did I let her cry? Yes. Was I a terrible mother? NO! I was doing what my daughter needed. and I am not a proponent of CIO.

miami85

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 10:39 am

I didnt read the whole thread but I have a background in psychology myself. Yes during the first year of life you are working on trust vs. Mistrust but you are also teaching self-regulation. And a baby who is conditioned to get fed every time s/he wakes will continue along that pattern. Remember object permanence can start around 8 months and therefore children start learning that I don't want to sleep I want entertainment I don't want to be in a dark room and therefore will cry to be rescued. CIO is not meant to deny your child something, its teaching baby to trust that mommy knows that you are OK right now and that what you need right now is sleep. Such as what you did--you went through your mental checklist of needs and they were all met and therefore you felt able to ignore baby's cry and let him fall asleep on his own. I'm not a big fan of staying with a child to fall asleep when they are too young b/c it can tease them and increase stress which is not conducive to sleep. If your child is comforted by your presence and therefore calms down then fine.

miami85

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 12:41 pm

It may not be a theory per se but you are breaking the cycle of the conditioning (skinner/pavlov) The key to remember is that you are not depriving your child of anything but retraining what the child is supposed to do in a given situation. By 10 months old a baby should be able to go 8-10 hours with uninterrupted sleep. If the baby does calm itself down or the crying does not intensify you can most likely assume the baby will self soothe and go back to sleep. My older child was sleeping through the night by 8 months after much coaxing from my pediatrician to just let him cio' and I had to go one night with telling ,myself-he really doesn't need you--could just be gas pangs that will take care of itself with a little wriggling. My younger son would keep crying and crying louder so I suspected something was wrong so we cut out lactose from his diet and he stopped asking up at night.

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 12:47 pm

Quote:

My younger son would keep crying and crying louder so I suspected something was wrong so we cut out lactose from his diet and he stopped asking up at night.

Well, that's part of my issue with CIO. How do you really know if a child is in pain?

I somehow survived 9 kids without ever CIO. Although I would let them cry for 5 minutes, but never longer.

I believe that "attachment theory" folks and others will tell you that Ferberized kids don't have good quality sleep. They are waking up and whimpering sadly but have learned that Mama isn't coming.

Or, as Rabbi Kelemen says, his method is guaranteed to yield a child who sleeps through the night when they are ready.

mandr

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 12:50 pm

amother wrote:

Quote:

My younger son would keep crying and crying louder so I suspected something was wrong so we cut out lactose from his diet and he stopped asking up at night.

Well, that's part of my issue with CIO. How do you really know if a child is in pain?

On Friday I thought my baby might be crying in pain because he was screaming in bed when I put him down for a nap, and he was pulling his ears that day. I felt bad letting him cry. After a few minutes I took him out and he stopped immediately. Sitting in my hands and sitting in bed shouldn't make a difference in ear pain so I know it was NOT because he was in pain. I put him back, he cried another 3 minutes and went to bed for a 2 hour nap.

miami85

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 12:50 pm

Ps I've also learned from my kids that some kids just can't be rocked to sleep both of mine had to figure it out on their own. Also I've noticed with my older son that he won't be down for the night until that last dirty diaper. Don't feel that you are a bad mother that you let him cry himself to sleep one time. Just make sure that during the day you give lots of hugs,kisses and attention to help teach the difference between day and night

MaBelleVie

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 12:55 pm

miami85 wrote:

None of that has anything to do with research based methods for teaching a child the skill of self regulation.

MaBelleVie

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 12:56 pm

mandr wrote:

Of course it could. My kids calm down when I hold them, even if they're sick and feverish. Being held by mommy can be equivalent to a dose of Tylenol.

mandr

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 1:02 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

Of course it could. My kids calm down when I hold them, even if they're sick and feverish. Being held by mommy can be equivalent to a dose of Tylenol.

No because this happened other times also and he most definitely was not in pain. He was laughing and playing a few minutes earlier and wasn't sick or anything.

Do you hold your baby to relieve a fever? Oh, and a mother gets an intuition when a child is in fever or in pain.

miami85

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 1:48 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

None of that has anything to do with research based methods for teaching a child the skill of self regulation.

behaviors are changed by replacing it. If a child is conditioned to eating but theylearn to suck their thumb/paci or hug their blankie or music/light show can distract so the child can fall asleep it is teaching self-soothing which is a form of self-regulation.

MaBelleVie

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 2:21 pm

mandr wrote:

I'm not saying he was definitely in pain. I'm saying that a child who calms down as soon as you pick him up should not be presumed to NOT be in pain. I guess my radars are off, because sometimes I have no idea that one of my kids is sick until he complains that his throat is hurting. I definitely hold my kids as much as possible when they're sick. It makes them feel better.