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-> Parenting our children
-> Infants
Ruchel
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 Mon, Jul 14 2014, 11:31 am
Chazal says also a woman doesn't have to work, and mentions often maids and all.
Okay. let's ask our rabbanim for no work and for maids and then maybe no one will CIO.
signed, someone sans maid who doesn't CIO but is fed up of all the people digging up sources to make our life difficult
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mandr
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Mon, Jul 14 2014, 12:52 pm
| amother wrote: | | I didn't read the whole thread but I think letting a baby CIO is wrong and has long term damage. I also don't think it's allowed according to Halacha. Chazal said that a mother is obligated to answer her baby cry. Anon because I don't want to be attacked. |
Then you know you wrote something that doesn't make sense.
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amother
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Mon, Jul 14 2014, 2:37 pm
| mandr wrote: | | Then you know you wrote something that doesn't make sense. |
It makes sense. I heard that rabbi kelerman and/orrlowitz say the same. You have to give din vecheshbon why you let baby cry. What would you say. I don't know why he cries but he is not hungry sick or wet? This os not a valid reason. The baby cries and he wants you. You can say that you are too tired but I'm not sure it's a good reason. You have to priorities your life. CIO is a new thing it was never done in the past decades.
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smss
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Mon, Jul 14 2014, 2:51 pm
| amother wrote: | | It makes sense. I heard that rabbi kelerman and/orrlowitz say the same. You have to give din vecheshbon why you let baby cry. What would you say. I don't know why he cries but he is not hungry sick or wet? This os not a valid reason. The baby cries and he wants you. You can say that you are too tired but I'm not sure it's a good reason. You have to priorities your life. CIO is a new thing it was never done in the past decades. |
well then I guess it's a good thing you're not the one people will have to be giving din v'cheshbon to.
open your mind a little amother, there may just be people out there who have busier schedules than you, harder kids, greater needs for sleep, etc etc etc. yes some people really do NEED to sleep train their children in order to function normally and be healthy mothers and wives. and btw babies need sleep too in order to grow and be healthy. it's a basic human need.
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acccdac
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Mon, Jul 14 2014, 3:36 pm
| smss wrote: | well then I guess it's a good thing you're not the one people will have to be giving din v'cheshbon to.
open your mind a little amother, there may just be people out there who have busier schedules than you, harder kids, greater needs for sleep, etc etc etc. yes some people really do NEED to sleep train their children in order to function normally and be healthy mothers and wives. and btw babies need sleep too in order to grow and be healthy. it's a basic human need. |
just to second smss's comments.
I slept with my baby last night in my bed because she was crying, and I had the WORST nights sleep ever (not the first time I slept with a baby in my bed). I was actually going to come on this morning to start a new thread asking how people who have a family bed , how they get sleep. I obviously went into the deep stages of sleep because I dreamed but you know what, during my dream there was this feeling that had nothing to do with the dream and it was bothering my psyche what it was. It was my baby nursing.
I did not sleep well because I wanted to make sure she was safe. She is little so she cant roll or pull a blanket over her head, but still I was worried that who knows what would happen.
oh and to the amother who said about her friend's kid who has issues, that has nothing to do with CIO. Children have issues because they have issues. I have 3 older kids who all did CIO (not complete but at some point, and I went in after 5 min and then 10, etc.) and they are all adjusted in school fine all went to school without attachment issues. they are okay socially, healthy, etc.
As mothers when something is going wrong with our children we automatically blame ourselves for it. They have ADD - I didnt eat correctly when I was pregnant, they get colds often - I didnt eat correctly when I was pregnant, they dont have friends - I didnt eat correctly when I was pregnant (no I'm not comparing ADD to lack of friends, just saying no matter how large or small the issue is we blame it on ourselves). It is not our job as friends to find blame in each other, friends support each other and tell you that blaming your child's problem on not eating correctly when pregnant is irrational.
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Ruchel
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Mon, Jul 14 2014, 3:38 pm
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I wonder if the rabbaniot of the rabbanim who say it's evil to let cry a fed, clothed, clean baby would agree. Mmmmm. What if mommy is so exhausted she has a car accident? or drops the baby? then we'll say "ewww, so neglecting, careless".
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heidi
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Mon, Jul 14 2014, 3:42 pm
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I admit I did not read the whole thread, but just had to comment that I am a big believer in ferberizing children. B"H my kids are on the whole healthy and have a trusting relationship with me. They do not remember crying it out, and their siblings do not remember when I had a baby cry it out.
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sped
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Mon, Jul 14 2014, 3:43 pm
| amother wrote: | | It makes sense. I heard that rabbi kelerman and/orrlowitz say the same. You have to give din vecheshbon why you let baby cry. What would you say. I don't know why he cries but he is not hungry sick or wet? This os not a valid reason. The baby cries and he wants you. You can say that you are too tired but I'm not sure it's a good reason. You have to priorities your life. CIO is a new thing it was never done in the past decades. |
I am pretty sure it is a valid reason. An exhausted mommy is not a very good mommy. Or oved hashem.
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amother
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Mon, Jul 14 2014, 3:54 pm
| smss wrote: | well then I guess it's a good thing you're not the one people will have to be giving din v'cheshbon to.
open your mind a little amother, there may just be people out there who have busier schedules than you, harder kids, greater needs for sleep, etc etc etc. yes some people really do NEED to sleep train their children in order to function normally and be healthy mothers and wives. and btw babies need sleep too in order to grow and be healthy. it's a basic human need. |
That is why I wrote that we need to prioritize. Woman go to events shiurim simchas and everything is demanding. The problem is that the baby is most needy and he doesn't know how to speak and demand. The first year of life is the most important in shaping the personality according to all psychologist. How do we know we are not contributing to add ADHD autism etc. this is very stressful for a little person to scream in the dark for hours.
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amother
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Mon, Jul 14 2014, 3:56 pm
| heidi wrote: | | I admit I did not read the whole thread, but just had to comment that I am a big believer in ferberizing children. B"H my kids are on the whole healthy and have a trusting relationship with me. They do not remember crying it out, and their siblings do not remember when I had a baby cry it out. |
they don't remember so they can't complain but did it hurt them?
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heidi
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Mon, Jul 14 2014, 3:58 pm
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It is very stressful for a mother to multitask and treat her children in a calm, loving, patient manner when she gets no sleep. Babies who sleep enough at night sleep better in the daytime too. My kids who all cried it out have shown no psychopathic tendencies (as of yet!)B"H!!
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amother
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Mon, Jul 14 2014, 3:59 pm
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Nobody can win this argument. We have to follow Chazal. Chazal said it's not allowed with no buts or ifs. Ein mikra yotze midey pshuto.
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heidi
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Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:01 pm
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Sorry, but what does chazal have to do with a baby sleeping; that is not a halachic question.
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Ruchel
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Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:05 pm
| amother wrote: | | That is why I wrote that we need to prioritize. Woman go to events shiurim simchas and everything is demanding. The problem is that the baby is most needy and he doesn't know how to speak and demand. The first year of life is the most important in shaping the personality according to all psychologist. How do we know we are not contributing to add ADHD autism etc. this is very stressful for a little person to scream in the dark for hours. |
Ha! I barely get out the first year- actually I left my ds to sleep with a baby sitter the first time a couple week ago.
If anything, the explosion of autism and adhd we lo alenu see now, goes hand in hand with the explosion of "new age parenting". Make of that what you will...
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Ruchel
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Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:07 pm
| amother wrote: | | Nobody can win this argument. We have to follow Chazal. Chazal said it's not allowed with no buts or ifs. Ein mikra yotze midey pshuto. |
Someone posted this gem a couple years ago. I asked an Imamother-shaila to my rav and he thought, yet again, that I was friends with really odd people 
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amother
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Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:10 pm
| Ruchel wrote: | | Someone posted this gem a couple years ago. I asked an Imamother-shaila to my rav and he thought, yet again, that I was friends with really odd people |
Not every rav is a real rav.
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amother
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Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:12 pm
| heidi wrote: | | Sorry, but what does chazal have to do with a baby sleeping; that is not a halachic question. |
Chazal said that a woman is not allowed to let her baby cry. And she will give din vecheshbon for every time she let him cry.
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amother
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Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:18 pm
| amother wrote: | | Chazal said that a woman is not allowed to let her baby cry. And she will give din vecheshbon for every time she let him cry. |
Where is this chazal?
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smss
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Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:20 pm
| amother wrote: | | Nobody can win this argument. We have to follow Chazal. Chazal said it's not allowed with no buts or ifs. Ein mikra yotze midey pshuto. |
is this the same amother? you seem to be contradicting yourself. first you say a mother will have to give din v'cheshbon, then that's it's not allowed with no buts or ifs. well which one is it?
also, doesn't mikra refer to a pasuk from the Torah, not a maamar Chazal?
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amother
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Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:35 pm
| smss wrote: | is this the same amother? you seem to be contradicting yourself. first you say a mother will have to give din v'cheshbon, then that's it's not allowed with no buts or ifs. well which one is it?
Yes it's
also, doesn't mikra refer to a pasuk from the Torah, not a maamar Chazal? |
Yes it is the same amother. Din vecheshbon means for every cry and cry. For every second. That is what Chazal said.
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